I think it's a few bad apples that give African Americans the bad name as a whole. You want justice and fairness, yet you can youtube "F*** the police" and it's a bunch of kids that don't know any better standing in a crowd singing a rap song in the face of police officers telling them "F*** the police"

Officers aren't robots, they are humans too. That badge carries a sense of entitlement for 80% of them which everyone on this site can agree on. So when you offend their egos by playing gangster and yelling this in their face, the situation isn't helped by either side. AND THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE

It's like poking the chained dog in your yard that was originally bought to protect you, and when it turns around and bites you, all of a sudden every breed of that dog must be wiped because it is bad.

If African Americans want change that bad it has to start from the top down. There will always be racism because some idiot that cannot think for himself will learn some crazy rhetoric that gives him a sense of belonging and acceptance, so it is futile to think racism will ever be completely eliminated. But you cannot change it when the biggest idols kids look up to are the ones singing songs about "clippin da po po" or "bangin dem chicks in da club" It's not how the real world works, and believe it or not, music influences the way kids think and act.

As far as for out of wedlock births and blaming it on one parent, I cannot fully agree. My father was killed by a drunk driver when I was two years old and my mother was a single parent living on a teachers salary which everyone knows, is not luxurious. Yet I managed to obtain a degree from LSU and be a commissioned officer in the army for four years. Was it because of the color of my skin? No, it was because when I was being raised, I had my ass kicked when I brought home bad grades because my mother wanted me to be something and live a better life. It doesn't matter what the color of your skin is, if your parents give a shit then they won't let you become a thug they will push you to do better.

LaLouisiane
Your father may have been taken from you when you were two but you were born into stability and a solid foundation. Being born out of wedlock is totally different.
You knew who your dad was and your Mom obviously had morals.
A black born out of wedlock was probably conceived on the roof top of some ghetto building by some clown with gold teeth and a few dime bags. And again, it has nothing to do with poverty, wealthy black athletes and rappers keep perpetuating this bullshit because its their culture. I can see having a baby due to a mistake, but damn, 5 kids with 5 different men ! Thats just irresponsible, immature, and extremely selfish. Being a kid is hard enough, now you want to make it 100 times tougher,,, unreal.
Sorry to sound harsh but black culture ( as a whole) is irresponsible and refuses to accept most of their problems, if not all. Most are self inflicted. My family is from Italy so to be honest, i dont give a fuck about slavery in 1845.
A black can literally walk into any impoverished white neighborhood and have no problem at all. And believe me, there are plenty of impoverished white neighborhoods in the mid west . why cant a white guy walk in Compton day or night? Because of violent black youth. Its not just compton. Its virtually any black neighborhood.
News flash for these thug rappers; they are nothing more than modern day tap dancers..

Let's I am white more like an off wife. I had a mother and father. Dad needed a punching bag so he used my brother and I for that job. Ma he used as an ash tray to put out his cigarettes.

I left home at 11 to get away from Daddio

So if your not black your just guessing how they had it.

If your were not like me you have no clue how my life has been.

I think the reason I get along with some black people so well was because we had a lot in common. More then you will ever have.

So all of that to say that whenever there is a police shooting of an unarmed person, a violent subculture is the one to blame? I don't buy that. Violent does not equate to insane. It's not a tradition to commit "suicide by cop" if you are into hip hop and things "urban". And that's what you are actually alleging as an excuse for police shootings. You are saying that the victims are so belligerent and so hostile that they deliberately provoked their own shooting...."suicide by cop".

If you guys are saying that yes, those people are so crazy and violent that they meant to commit suicide by cop all because they are defiant and were only raised by a single mom.....you completely lost me there. Sorry.

And you can't prove it. There is a body laying there with no gun, and the bullets in the victim match the cop's revolver. So there is no dispute there. What is in dispute is if the unarmed person meant to attack an armed officer with a drawn weapon. Actually that's not in dispute. That's actually ridiculous.

You don't get to say that because the subculture is violent and defiant, that this is proof that a particular unarmed police shooting victim meant to attack a fully armed officer of the law. To accomplish what exactly? Since when do cops with guns get beat up in ghettos by people with no weapons just looking for someone's ass to kick? That's stupid, it never happened, and I think we are past the talking stage. Now you have a bunch of nuts out there that want to kill cops for real and that is damned unfortunate. I know some good guys that are cops.

I think the protests are good in this sense...

The people are getting in the cops faces and doing what the apologists for police shootings are claiming got the police victim killed. They are ranting, raving, cursing, daring the cop to shoot them. But during the protests, most of the times the cops won't fire a live round because of free speech protections. If you ask me I would say that is good "sensitivity training" for the police...to practice NOT shooting at people under extreme provocation.

True that majority of blacks were slaves but it's not the entire population . There was always a free population and the first group to arrived was indentured servants that would be free after completing their contracts. If you ever get the chance pick up/ order Before The Mayflower, it documents the history of blacks between 1617-1966 i think. There are many details .

The statistics that compare blacks to other ethnic groups is not a comprehensive study of progress. The media & politics have a field goal with those percentagesand numbers. If your going to publish reports on any particular group, which they do, then it should reflect the current & past statistics. To me that make more sense because it doesn't matter if the income gap is larger as long they can take care of themselves and families . Poverty going to vary but it's lower compared to many decades earlier. But comparing can be trivial at times when whites outnumbered blacks 3-1.

This notion of out of wedlock includes me personally and it's definitely a knee jerk response because someone else is speaking from looking outside in and don't know the full details . Yes it's accurate but the reasons behind it vary from person to person and can't be blanketed. I've met many of blacks that knew their fathers and some didn't, it varies. Here's some of the factors speaking from a black experience : Father is in military, prison, dead, lives in a different city/state. due to job, deadbeats, and or living together . Let me tell you the most cases out of those factors : Lived together , lived in seperate homes, prison. I've met far more guys that knew their dad vs deadbeats. That why I've been trying to figure out how does marriage equal parenting? Their are statistics for unmarried two households for blacks but rarely is brought into discussions. http://m.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2...america/277084/

@LaLouisiana I think you have to consider wedlock a factor in the dropping standards of African American culture. What do they see when their dad walks out on them? The way he treats their mother and other women around him? How does he behave and go about himself? Young black males in this country are more likely to be killed than any other ethnic group and it's not by cops or by white people but by another black person. There's a reason for this and I believe it's self perpetuating. Lack of education, poverty and improper role models (rappers) are all factors. But wedlock black males without fathers are more likely to end up in jail and have confrontations with the police. It's a problem.

@Alfa- No being in an urban ghetto sub culture will not make people go for a suicide by police shooting but it does make it more likely there will be confrontations with them such as Mike Brown in MO. I can see you're sympathetic to the protestors which I can understand why people will be, that doesn't mean most of them know what the hell they are doing or are even protesting the right way for the right reasons. But the proof of Mike Brown attacking that officer is a separate issue entirely. It's fact some sort of scuffle occurred between them. Who's fault was it? I'm inclined to believe it's Brown's, but we don't know for sure.

What I'm trying to get across is that African American culture (if you can call it that) today is fucked up. This doesn't go for every black person living in every black neighborhood but there is a systematic problem. And this time it's not the US government or white people.

rockstar man, reading your post I had to agree with you about black rappers, I think that is a big problem for young black men.

if black rappers are role models for black youth, then it's no wonder that they are as violent as they are. as far as I am concerned rap is not music.

black rappers are ignorant, uneducated, uncultured, and stand for nothing but crime.

I have to be fair Binnie. Not all are bad models and not all are vicious in their writings. Some are very intelligent and educated. But enough are bad that they get the attention and not people writing and rapping about the right things.

It's the lil Wayne/Busta Rhymes knuckleheads that have corrupted the art form.

That's all I am really saying. Who Mike Brown was or how he was raised doesn't really amount to even circumstantial evidence in the investigation of his shooting.

You have people like Oscar Grant who were shot in public by police at point blank range....in the back....while lying face down.....handcuffed. And the cop got off with a tap on the wrist.

The protesters are insane with anger and the rage is crossing racial boundaries. It is superfluent rage.

I understand what you are saying, but, there are too many violent ones, I think. just saying.

I agree Binnie. Too many are violent or promote it in their CD's. Now rock and roll was rebellious but Guns N Roses and Led Zeppelin were not telling people to go out there and shoot cops while forcibly having sex with a woman

yes, you are right, what kind of statements are those that those black kids listen to. what is that promoting? its really sad that they can't have better role models.

Blacks, women, religion, any ethnic minority, gays, unemployed etc, everybody seems to.be whining about equal rights apart from white working males who are the silent majority paying for it all-people have never had it so good these days and fail to realise it. When has there ever been anyone who has wanted equal rights, got what they wanted then shut the fuck up and got on with their lives? It's a campaign without any end and used as an excuse for continual underachievement. Some advice, if you're 'offended', a word which has created its own industry over the last few years, so what? Get over it like everyone else and think of a role model who has made it.......strangely (!) you'll be able to think of quite a few, proving what a waste of time you've so far made of your life

I think it is a few anarchists that are leading the young sheep whose fathers and mothers were other sheep who marched in the 60s. Also there are paid black strong arm people gang bangers who are hired to put the physical point on their bullshit.

Everyone thinks it is something to worry about. I don't just more bullshit from the past.

If we are what watchers think we are their is no way we would have elected a black president twice.

Sad no it's shameful . But everyone have to remember it's a popularity contest. There's many of us wondering what happen to the hip hop in mainstream today, 85% of the time the expression is basically WTF??? How did (input current pop rapper song) get. this far? People can complain bout it negativity and yet don't support the artist that have quality content enough . Their are tons of rappers that make artistic, intelligent music but not receiving enough support and exposure on mainstream . Come one fellows how many times have i posted a Lupe Fiasco , The Most Lyrical Artist Of This Generation, video and not anyone on BB made a comment on it? That is how it is nearly every where else on media sites . I want anybody to go to YouTube right now. and look at the number of views for Lupe Fiasco " Haile Selassie" song then look at the bullshit " CoCo" video by O.T Genasis. Then you'll get why i say stop complaining and start supporting .

Black family
I am a firm believer that we are all god's children and are all born equal. I had a black supervisor years ago and i adored and respected him immensely. In fact, if he told me to jump off a building, i would have.
I find it hard to fathom that blacks dont agree 100% that most ( if not all) of their problems are due to the disintegration of the black family.
Most blacks are born out of wed lock, thats a fact.. Almost 75% . Thats astounding. You think thats a recipe for success? You think that puts a beautiful baby on a strong path? It almost feels as if babies are viewed as puppies. As soon as they are'nt puppies, they are'nt taken care of.
Think about how bad it is that a news agency isnt allowed to describe a criminal as black, they can only mention his height and if he was a male. Its absurd.

Lets look at it like this: " I'm a poor black woman who has 4 brothers and sisters and i have no idea who my father is. My Mom was on welfare, we lived in a high crime area and my one brother was shot and my other brother was in jail for robbery. I am 19 years old and i have a choice. I can choose to go to college,acquire skills, meet a nice man, get married, have a child and raise him in a stable/ loving household.
Or i can choose to have a baby at 19 and have my child go through the EXACT same hardships as i did. Well, thats a selfish fuckin move. But i wont blame myself for making that choice, i will blame it on racism. I will also accuse any of my peers who went to college, speak proper english, and who lead a responsible life style as being " sell outs".

Crash, I think illegal immigration is driving down wages, and driving up unemployment in America regardless of race. I don't blame the immigrants, most of them come here with good intentions, they just want to work to feed their families. But an American who has been working hard all their life shouldn't have to compete with people desperate enough to have to work for starvation wages.

Belmount

I'm still a little perturbed with you since you went around the bush in a direct conversation a long time ago. But now that you want to chat sure I can do that.

We have many discussions on the problems within our communities and yes youth pregnancy is one of them. But not that's not the sole the problems because it's individuality. Your problem is not the next fellow american problem but similar.
Let me break down those stats and you think more on this account : Subtract from that percentage those that are Divorced, Fathers overseas, Unmarried Couples, Widows, and Unmarried Fathers died by natural cause & accidents, Fathers killed by Drugs/Gangs/ & Organized Crime related, And of course those who don't WANT to get married.

Everybody know that relationships goes up & down. And that 19 year old still can go to college ( I know since there's pregnant and mothers) so it's not much of an ultimatum . Teens are going to make poor decisions and guys trying get laid , that's normal. I'm not trying to deflect the problem but divorce rate have risen generally overall so there's more single mothers out there.
Plus you must haven't read this: http://m.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2...america/277084/

Black Family
You are skating around the issue. Of course a 19 year old can still go to college AFTER she has a baby but you and I both know she will be at a tremendous disadvantage as will that little baby. Guess what ? She now has to work ,PLUS go to school ,PLUS study ,and PLUS take care of a baby !!!! Thats very difficult for someone with a wealthy family never mind a single nineteen year old kid.
The question is : WHY do most blacks choose that route when its a proven recipe for disaster ? Keep in mind, my example assumes college when most do'nt go.
The other question is why are so many black woman choosing to have babies at such a young age without being married and without a stable environment for that kid? Anyone with a brain knows full well that bringing a precious baby into this world under those conditions are starting the baby off with a HUGE disadvantage in life... So again, after knowing this, why do blacks continue to keep doing it???
I guarantee, most stable black families with both a mother and father condemn that type of irresponsible behavior.
For the record, i own a business and have some wonderful customers that are black and they are beautiful people, i have no issue with blacks. i have an issue with the portion of the black population that condones and accepts the irresponsible life style we are talking about.

" Of course a 19 year old can still go to college AFTER she has a baby but you and I both know she will be at a tremendous disadvantage as will that little baby. Guess what ? She now has to work ,PLUS go to school ,PLUS study ,and PLUS take care of a baby !!!! Thats very difficult for someone with a wealthy family never mind a single nineteen year old kid."

I said she can enroll and attend while pregnant and after childbirth ( a lot of catching up of course) still can graduate. That's why she have relatives to help her out but it's different from person to person at the end of the day. I have a hard time believing its more difficult if your wealthy.

"The question is : WHY do most blacks choose that route when its a proven recipe for disaster ? Keep in mind, my example assumes college when most don't go."

Naive mind or hardheaded for some and repeat the cycle but not most. Actually more blacks are going to college and particular more black females than males.

"The other question is why are so many black woman choosing to have babies at such a young age without being married and without a stable environment for that kid? "

They get involved in relationships with the wrong guys or naively assumes his going to take care of her, etc. But again it's not many just some and the link I provided shed light on it.

Sir with all due respect and love why have an issue with a small segment when it's not a personal problem for you? Meaning your not black.

First off, deciding to have a baby out if wed lock and then depending on relatives to help is absurd. Why burden others due to irresponsible decisions???
You say i am only referring to a small segment of the black population? Its over 70% of black children that are born out of wed lock. Thats not a small segment, thats a majority.
Why do i care if i'm not black? I care as an american. I care as a tax payer and i care as a human being. Its just wrong to live that way. And unfair to the babies.

"First off, deciding to have a baby out if wed lock and then depending on relatives to help is absurd. Why burden others due to irresponsible decisions???"

Its called family for a reason and some isn't decided just happen due to fool around which happens. We all make poor decision and a relative generally helps out.

"You say i am only referring to a small segment of the black population? Its over 70% of black children that are born out of wed lock. Thats not a small segment, thats a majority."

I thought you meant specially the lazy no good ones depending on welfare, LoL. Yes of course it's a majority and as I have said before Belmount ; Unmarried households is the majority now overall in our country and it doesn't equals parenting. Unmarried / married that's between the parents relationship but when comes to raising that child/children it doesn't matter if there's a ring on the finger or not period.

"Why do i care if i'm not black? I care as an american. I care as a tax payer and i care as a human being. Its just wrong to live that way. And unfair to the babies."

I admire your passion. There's many people living wrong by their choices and that's apart of life. Talk to your black employees and I bet you have a similar conversation that runs along mine and yet along with yours. There's no monolithic black community likewise with your ethnicity and others. Every black community is different yet experience the similar social circumstances to various degrees.

Don't get me wrong, I understand and can agree what your saying, but being from the rural south the way I see it, it's more on the morals of parenting in general rather if it's one or both. Regardless of growing up in the ghetto ruins, or growing up in a white trash trailer park, if your parent(s) don't push you to be something better than what your currently living, regardless of race, they both end up in the same boat.

I mean what's the difference between a black ghetto male joining a street gang and selling dope on the street corner and a white trash kid that joins a 1% biker gang and peddles meth? A bike and the color of their skin?? A piece of shit is a piece of shit correct? (Pardon my French)

So in that reference, I blame it on the parenting. Usually to find out how someone ends up a low life, you simply look back at their parents and the values they hold. AND that's regardless of race. I'd actually like to know what the wedlock factor is for white criminals, Number-wise it probably won't be as high, but I'm sure the drop off may be just as noticeable between out of wedlock and wedlock success to failure rate.

And for all I know I may be wrong, I'm just a dumb white kid from the swamp.

Black family
You say a family sticks together and helps raise a kid out of wed lock??? Well, i can see once, but to condone it is another story. blacks condone irresponsible behavior, lets be real here.
I just read a story yesterday about a black kid that was shot. His neighbor said he was looking forward to getting his GED and he and his girl friend were about to have their first baby ... Are you kidding me !!! 18 and having a baby without being married and no high school diploma in this day and age .. These are the kind of kids/ people that ruin the black community and of course his girlfriend has to take the blame as well. What do you think is going to happen to that baby when the girlfriend delivers? Just a guess but i can pretty much guarantee he is going to be wearing an orange jump suit in 18 years ,
Lets change the scenario. His shit head father graduates high school, goes to college, or acquires skills as a trade school. He then gets a job, meets a nice girl, they get married and then plan on having a baby..how bout that????? I would bet that baby turns out pretty darn good.

Hello everyone, I've been lurking on this site for a while now, but finally worked up the gumption to register/post.

You can call me Bookgirl

Interesting discussion, I don't want to get into a black/white debate, but I personally feel the majority of crime within not just black communities but in white communities as well can be traced back to the lack of a father figure.

Now I'm just a nerdy white woman (a woman who loves musical theater and gangster films, so yeah I'm strange ) so you are all free to say I don't know what I'm talking about. But speaking as a woman I can tell you this...we need our fathers in our lives just as much, if not MORE then guys do.

I keep hearing this comment "if these black girls would stop spreading their legs, then their wouldn't be so many children growing up out of wedlock" etc. But do you know WHY so many girls (and not just black girls) sleep around and get pregnant at 16?

Because they don't have a father to check them.

Growing up, all my girlfriends didn't have a father in their life, or a father who was around all the time. In fact I was the only girl on my street who came from a two-parent home. And let me tell you...I couldn't get away with half the stuff my girlfriends could.

My father knew who I was with, who I was dating, etc. I couldn't fool around with guys because my father would have whipped my little butt. At the time I hated it and was envious of my friend. Now that I am a adult and the only one out of my friends who didn't end up pregnant at 17 or hooked on drugs, I couldn't be more grateful.

And even now as a grown woman living on her own, I know my father still has my back. If some man I dated hurt me, I know my dad would be the first one there 'defending my honor' because THAT is what fathers are for, and that is why girls (not just boys) need them in their lives.

My father is my rock, and no matter how old I get I know he always has my back. And sadly so many women these days don't know what that is like, and THAT is why so many end up with 5 plus kids before they turn twenty.

That's just my opinion.

book girl
having no father has a huge impact but dont you think enough time has gone by for black women to say : " maybe we should stop the cycle"..

Belmount ( by the way what does name means?)

Making presumptions on a child's future due to their parent's irresponsibilities isn't right. Think of the numerous stories or celebrities that was raise in those inner city slums and made it out because they understood their surroundings and actions their parents made. The rag to rich cliche per say. That alone proves its more than your view of the situation.

Change the scenario to match yours, that kid that grows up under the married household winds up being a Kingpin. How do you explain that? His parents both graduated high school & college, professionals in their careers, waited to have a child, no records, and yet the child grows up to be a notorious hustler? My real life example from college; met a black guy who was respectful, soft-spoken and carried himself like a gentleman from mannerism to casual appearance, president of a college club and guess what... He's a member of the Gangster Disciples. I was completely surprised. You never know what decisions nor path a child will take in their life regardless if they're from a broken home or wealthy don't have to work family.

Book girl said "Now I'm just a nerdy white woman (a woman who loves musical theater and gangster films, so yeah I'm strange tongue ) so you are all free to say I don't know what I'm talking about. But speaking as a woman I can tell you this...we need our fathers"

If you do your different from my daughters. I have 2 of them there both Independent. We raised them that way.

They actually don't want me sticking my nose in their personal business. They think I take things to far if they tell me to much. Their probably right about that.

I taught both of them not to rely on anyone except themselves to handle things in their lives. You can't count on no one except yourselves in life.

I had to learn to do things on my own from a young age. Yes I had a mother and a father. Frankly, I wish my father would have left. But, He stayed to torment us. Good news someone did us all a favor and murdered the prick. We should have threw a party when that happened he would have been the quest of honor.

Black Family
You are again talking about the exception( by far) rather than the rule. A drug kingpin from a strong family/ stable family??? Of course it can happen but its much more likely in the out of wed lock situation. Look at all the murders in chicago, new orleans, detroit.. Probably 9 out if 10 are committed by blacks who were born out of wed lock. Most blacks that come from out of wed lock families have a MUCH tougher time leading responsible/ productive lives. In fact, they usually wind up engaging in the same irresponsible behavior as their parents.
Since its obvious that the out of wed lock birth rate in the black community leads to crime and poverty, what is someone like you doing about it ????
How do you think black leaders should attack this problem and why do they ignore even though its the root cause of most, if not all the problems in the black community?
As a black man, doesnt it bother you when when you think of a successful black and its always some entertainer and not an engineer or medical researcher?
Does it bother you that a successful/ wealthy athlete like Adrian Peterson has at least 5 kids with 5 different woman? This all happened AFTER he made his millions so poverty doesnt cause that sort of behavior. Its up to you to stop the cycle my friend. I challenge you to do that.

So you think because your daughters are independent that they don't need you?

I am a very independent person, both my parents taught me that I have to rely upon myself and not others to get anywhere in this world. But just because you are independent doesn't mean you don't need your parents in your life.

Now that I'm an adult my Dad's not in my personal business, nor would I want him to be. But I still maintain a very close relationship with both my parents, and I'm glad when I was a teenager that my Dad DID make it his business to know what I was doing and who I was with.



It's true that not all two-parent homes are good and loving homes, there are always abusive and unhealthy families out their. Sounds like your father wasn't a very good person, my father didn't have a very good relationship with his father either, growing up I hardly knew my Grandpa because the two were so estranged, so I understand what you are saying.

All I really meant in my post was that a child (boys AND girls) usually thrive when they have two loving parents.

There are always exceptions to the rule, and it wasn't my intent to bash single-parent families (heck all my friends came from single-parent families!) but I DO think that children need at least some sort of father figure in their life...so sue me.