What is the point of the train noise that Michael can hear in his head right after he gets the gun from the stahl in the bathroom and also while hes sitting at the table while Solozzo is talkin right before he kills them both? Is it basically suppose to show that Michael was on a train taking him far away from the family business that was now coming to a screeching halt with him now havin to kill two men for the business? Remember, he said its not personal, its just business, Sonny. Was that the point of the train or does someone else have a better explanation?

To show the intensity of Michael's mind just before he shot them. Notice how he looked as if he was saying "So am I gonna do this?" This technique is also used in "Glengarry GlenRoss"

I agree with Don Vercetti. I would only add that the viewer should note that the sound of the train gets louder & faster. This is a metaphor for the fact that once Michael kills Sollozzo & McCluskey, then Michael's life will never be the same again and there's no going back. It represents all of the angst that Michael is feeling. Notice how he can't concentrate on anything Sollozzo is saying just before pulling out the gun.

that noise (in my opinion) is the greatest detail in that scene. sollozzo has michaels (and the audiences) full attention right from the beginning of that scene. michael was so focused into sollozzo it was intimidating. after coming back from the restroom, he pauses. i think, he was somewhat questioning his choice of action and debating following through with it. then he sits, tries to keep his cool, but his mind was just swirling with emotions, thoughts, opinions, anything and everything was going on through michaels head at that moment. this was going to change his life forever and he knew it. i think that noise symbolizes all the "chaos" going on in his head.
robert

I thought they just used it to add impact to the climax of the scene. As the train noise was originaly real and could be heard from where they were shooting.

I don't think it's in his head. I think there was actually a train going by. It did add a lot of tension and sheer awesomeness to the scene, though.

ehh, I dont think it was real, I believe it was in his head because the noise of the train dies down without it even stopping while Michael is stillin the bathroom but the audience can actually hear it stop once he decided to shoot them when hes back at the table. I think it didnt stop in the bathroom cuz it was showing he still had the option of not shooting them but then once he did make the option to shoot them, the train came to a halting screech showing there was no goin back like someone else jus mentioned. Plus, trains dont come after one another that fast.

No but I remember reading when they were filming the train going by happened to be real, and I think FFC had the idea of having the train noise put in as Mickey is about to shoot Solozzo. It's just to show that he inside everything is boiling up, until the climax of shooting them.

There really is an "el" (elevated train) right outside the restaurant, and since it has tracks going in both directions, its quite possible to have the sound of roaring trains overhead in quick succession. The downside to the "reality" argument is that the location of the restaurant (White Plains Road & Gun Hill Road) is at a subway stop at which all trains stop, thus the trains wouldn't actually be roaring overhead.

That aside, I always likened the sound of the trains roaring as being symbolic of Michael's life being similar to a runaway train at that point....it was careening out of control, taking him on a (noisy) path of fulfilling his destiny.

I was always under the impression that it was a real train that zipped by while filming, and that it was never ment to be in the movie.That aside, I have never been able to put my finger on what exactally it symbolizes for me

Is that restaurant still there? If not, what's in its place now? I'd like to stop by.

Try the veal--it's the finest in New York.

Its now a storefront church.

I hate to burst everyone's metaphorical and symbolic bubbles, but the train sound - or as SC points out the 'el'- had more practical influence on the scene.

Elevated trains in NY are extensions of the subway system. They run constantly and in both directions. They are very germaine to the NY scene in the outer boroughs of the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn. So to have the train noise in the background is common.

FFC used this commonplace environment to enhance and build the drama of the scene. If you notice Michael fires the gun when the train noise is loudest. From a practical aspect, he waited for that moment to coverup the sound of the gun being heard outside. It also serves the director by adding to the tension and intensity of the scene. The sound of the train crescendos upward, then blam, blam, blam.....silence....then a dramatic infusion of music.

You could say the train noise has some symbolism of what's going on in Michael's head, but I prefer the dramatic effect of tying a commonplace NY element into the drama of the scene.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say, I think we're just looking for metaphors by saying it represents Michael's life.

I thought that it went without saying that there was a real train heard in the scene. I can't believe that anyone would think that was all in Michael's head. The metaphors are tied in by FFC including the train noise in this particular scene.

There train is only there to build up the climax of the scene. Comparing the train to Michaels life was never intended.

If the viewer takes that from the scene that that is what was intended. The viewer can take whatever they want from a movie. I think that it just illustrates the genius that is FFC.

Some things that happen in real life signify something else. Like winter meaning death. Sure it's just a cold season - but it also signifies death.

That scene just happened to work out and it did perfectly.

There seems to be alot of debate about whether the train was just a coincidence. Well it could have been and the great thing about art is it's something different to everyone who watches it. Let me point out the FFC has a degree in Film and English and would be well versed in metaphors and allegories and the like. Mario Puzo is a writer so I do think the Train does have strong metaphoric properties as well as perhaps symbolic of Michael's mind and even perhaps a way of muffling the shots.

And it works so well because it's so believeable. Had they been in the middle of a field where there are no tracks around, this would have been a stretch. But since they are in the city where there are metros, etc... it works so well. The double meaning is not exaggerated or forced.

I have not seen this scene in a while if I am recalling right, it is a real train. We do see the flashing lights of the train across Michael's face. Sollozo keeps on talking regardless, he and the capt appears not to bothered by the train. The train roars in Michael head because he is more interested in making his bones than in Sollozo's trite speech. So he really does not hear Sollozo. The train comes in better focus.

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar . I think the train was added to help build the scene and parallel how Mikes mind was working...

Yup, as I said the thing that makes art work is that it can be something different to everyone else. Even what the author or director intended it's still up to you to define it.

Exactly.

Sammy the Bull, in an interview a few years ago (NY Times Magazine), said this scene - in which Michael appears to just blank out everything - is exactly what happened when he, a real mob guy, was about to kill someone. He said the filmmakers must have known reallife mobsters to know this.

I think that's one of the greatest scenes in history. And according to Al Pacino, its the scene that kept him on the job.

Anyone that lives in a major city that has Els, knows how the supports stand out. It appears that the El train is right outside the restaurant by the volume, but when Mike is outside Louies, there is no visible sign of any El train supports.

Thats not entirely true. You have to look carefully (in the scene when Mike's car first pulls up to the restaurant) to see one of the "el" supports.

The restaurant used to film that scene was really called "Luna Restaurant". It closed a year after the movie was filmed, and its now a storefront church.

The address is 3510 White Plains Road, Bronx, NY (just off Gun Hill Road). Its right under the tracks on which the numbers "2" and "5" trains run.

Train sounds occurs in different volumes throughout the scene, so I don't know how you can tell at that the train was outside of the resturant. However, SC is right. You can see the posts right outside of the resturant.

Thanks for the info. Any time you want info about the Rocky films let me know Such as even though Rocky was supposed to be from South Philly, much of the film was done in North Philly in an area known as Kensington, where the "El" runs. There is no Els in South Philly, just the subway

Thanks, Johnny. Actually I'm gonna head down to Philly soon, and I would like to see the museum steps that Rocky climbed in his training sequences. Any info??

Also - the ship that brought young Vito Corleone to America is now a restaurant somewhere in Philly. The name of the ship is The Mosholu. Can you tell me where (in Philly) it is??

Thanks.

Most of the Rocky sites are fairly easy to get to. The steps and the Mosholu are in what we call "center city", but at different ends. The steps are at the end of the Benjamin Franklin Parkway which ends at the Schuylkill (pronounced Skul-kill) river. Its a relatively short walk from the center of town, and quite pleasant. You will pass the Franklin Institue, which is quite interesting, but takes a couple of hours to see the exhibits. The whole parkway is along the lines of the Champs Elysées in Paris. The Mosholu is on the other side of town on the Delaware River, in an area known as Penns Landing. For years Philadelphia has tried to develope that area like the South Seaport in New York, or the Inner harbor in Baltimore, with no success. Also in that area is a couple of historic Naval Ships, including Admiral Deweys flagship "Olympia" and a WWII submarine. Right across the river which is accesible by ferry, is the USS New Jersey battleship museum in Camden. I wouldn't recommend having lunch on the Moshulu, I have heard the food isn't that great. In that area there are many good restuarants of varied cuisines. For Italian food, I would recommend La Familia at Front and Market. They have been in business for many years, and its a family owned business. Its along the lines of upscale Louies. Try the veal its the best in the city . If you want to take a interesting side trip, thats not too far go to Pat's Steaks 9th and Passyunk (pronounced pash shunk). You can see the plaque on the ground where Rocky had a cheesesteak with Willie Cicci. Of course in the film he was the loan shark Rocky worked for. If you decide you want a cheesesteak, I would go across the street to Geno's, much better! By the way this is the area that Rocky did some of his running. Its the scene where is running through the "Italian Market" with all the pushcarts, and someone throws an orange to him. If your taste is more toward a hoagie, about 2 blocks away is Chickies Italian Deli, with hoagies to die for. Get there early because they usually run out of rolls early.
The house where Rocky lived and the pet shop arent that close to center city. Any other locations you would like to know, just let me know.