Is anyone interested in the Liverpool crime scene?

Heres a few articles for those that are

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/30/curtis-cocky-warren-anti-drugs-believe

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/curtis-warren-pal-mi5-spies-4568939

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/nov/23/drug-barons-haase-bennett

I'm from Liverpool so I like to think I can speak a bit of truth about it. For Curtis Warren see Joey Merlino: he'll never be left alone. Once he gets released again they'll give him 10 years for dropping litter. He got off a case in the 90's, and I can't think of the specifics as I haven't got time to look it up. But basically I think a shipment of drugs
was confiscated and they thought (knew, probably) that he did it. He got off with it in court and said something like "I'm off to spend the other £90 million you didn't get and there's fuck all you can do about it."

He's a smart guy. Well, maybe not that smart as he's been locked up for a lot of his life. But I believe he was stitched up on the last thing. £1m worth of weed into Jersey? With a bunch of two-bit gangsters who he hardly knew? I'm not buying it. But that's the thing, the police illegally bugged his car and nothing came of it. The judge didn't care. He'll get out again and be inside within 6 months no matter what.

People are stupid here when it comes to guns. A kid, 17, was shot dead a couple of weeks ago. I don't know why or what for, it could have been anything. But in the past 7 or 8 years about 30 people have been shot dead. I'd wager a lot of those would have been over stupid shit. A lot of young people my age (I'm 22).


I know a lot of people say this about their city but it's a great place. Brilliant architecture, restaurants, museums, natural beauty. Most people here are decent, caring, hard-working people with a wicked sense of humour. But the lunatics running around with guns get the headlines.

Yes there are a lot of street gangs now it seems.

Have you read the book Young Blood by Graham Johnson?

Outside of John Lennon's murder, which took place here anyway, I can't think of a single American who gives a shit.

And I don't mean that disrespectfully. But I think it speaks to the fact that many of us Americans are baffled by the British fascination with American organized crime. Because I have ho be honest, if Jack the Ripper came back from the dead, I don't think I'd even pick up a newspaper. But in all fairness, it's probably because we're too self-absorbed over here.

I've visited Liverpool once. True, Liverpool gangsters have a notorious reputation across Europe. But they really do represent a small amount of the population -which in all honesty is the case with any community. Warren was a very serious guy, but there were and are others around from the city that are just as serious. But as Jimmythepen said, the police were out to nail this guy and they will probably keep nailing him till the end of his days. The fact that he was the boss of a black criminal organization from the Toxteth area, in an underworld of mostly white crime bosses, also made him stand out. And when it comes to the underworld, both media and law enforcement have their own scapegoats. After Warren, you had James "Pancake" Taylor and his nameless partner who's dubbed "The Bird of Prey" (media is fond for inventing nicknames of almost Keyser Soze-like proportions) at the center of the attention, even though I do not know how powerful they actually were/are. In general, Liverpool has an infamous reputation for its own breed of organized crime, going back decades. And it's a reputation that has been sticking to the city ever since.

But to be honest it really is a great city. It has an undeserved reputation with people who have never even been to the city describing it as "run down", "ugly", "dangerous",...which is complete bullshit. There are a few not so nice areas of course, but the good areas far outweigh the bad ones. I was surprised at how much I liked the city when I went there. And the people are very friendly and welcoming.

There's a possibility I will be living in London next year for a couple of months. If that's the case I will surely visit the city again if I have the chance.

I've lived up here for close to six years now as both a student and now a career academic and there are definitely visible signs of gangsterism in the city if you know where to look for it - a ton of the bars and small cash-only businesses (an interesting feature of Liverpool is the sheer number of pubs/shops/restaurants that still do not accept plastic) close to where I lived as an undergraduate round the Smithdown/Allerton/Wavertree areas were gangster run and shootings were a not infrequent occurrence (in terms of the UK, which has very little gun crime in a global context.)

In addition to the more organised drug distribution rings there are also numerous street gangs operating throughout the poorer parts of the city, ultimately it's a story familiar the world over; the poor parts of Liverpool (Norris Green, Anfield, Croxteth, Dingle etc) are essentially as deprived as the UK gets and anywhere there's entrenched poverty and despair with little hope of relief is going to breed crime, organised or otherwise.

This is the latest shooting on Smithdown, about 5-10 minutes walk from where I used to live and where I pass en-route to work pretty much everyday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-31239282

Within a couple of days of this a man also got hit and killed by a bus and a driver had a heart-attack and drove into a lamp post all within about 500 yards of each other.

Aside from this aspect I would just emphasise what a great place the city is - the negative reputation that still persists is a couple of decades out of date; it has some of the greatest architecture in the country with the highest number of listed buildings outside London as well as the largest collection of internationally acclaimed theatres and galleries aside from the capital, not to mention some of the best and most easily accessible nightlife anywhere in the country, oh and 7 UNESCO world heritage sites!

I can't speak for anyone else but the reason I've always found the American Mafia fascinating is the way it represents a dark mirror to the American 20th century; within its peaks and troughs, successes and failures can be seen so many aspects of U.S society in microcosm (the oft-discussed assimilation/attrition issue facing the mob is just one example) and indeed in its adoption of an ultra-business like approach can be seen the worst excesses of the American capitalist model taken to their extreme conclusion.

Edit: Meant to add I think this is one of the (many) things the Sopranos captured so stunningly.

Haha fair enough

It is an interesting story though how a city that was rapidly declining as an old industrial port, has gone on to produce criminals that have dominated the drugs trade not only in Britain but across Europe. They have made contacts in Amsterdam, Colombia, Turkey and Mexico and have made hundreds of millions.

A lot of these men were just typical English criminals but have gone on to create massive empires and many of the original people involved started making contacts while following their football team to games in Europe. They have gone from robbing shops to multi-millionaires in the space of a few years. Curtis Warren was locked up in Switzerland for trying to rob a shop and a few years later was involved in 1000 kilo cocaine importations

Off topic, and it's just a movie. But what did most Brits think of "The Bank Job," with Jason Statham? I LOVED THAT FILM!

I've always found it strange that the majority of American's have no idea what's going on outside they're own country. It's like you guys live in a bubble.

Was on last night, pretty average I thought. Lock Stock & Snatch are the best.

I said we're too self-absorbed, didn't I?

And outside our own country? More like our own neighborhoods, especially the kinds of guys that we discuss here.

Lock Stock & Snatch are both classic. Brick Top cracks me up each time he's on screen. I don't know why but I always loved "Rise of the Foot Soldier". It's far from a masterpiece and the script is all over the place, but it has an undeniable vibe to it.

I love Snatch myself. The movie was pretty good, too.

Ahh Didn't notice pal.

Lock Stock and Snatch are by far Guy Ritchie's best works. From there on he quickly went downhill, even though I seem to like his movie Revolver more than the general moviegoer seems to do. RocknRolla wasn't bad, but it had none of the great characters Snatch had and none of the great atmosphere of Lock Stock.

His Sherlock Holmes movies repeatedly made me cringe.

One word: Madonna. That pig has ruined more than one man.

It took Sean Penn years to be taken seriously as an actor again. And now he has two Oscars for Best Actor. That no one takes Sean Penn seriously as a human being is on him, though. He's as crazy as a shithouse rat.

Point being, Guy Ritchie can make it back. I like him.

My dad is from Liverpool so r all my aunties uncles and grandparents , just sayin

She fell off stage at the Brit awards the other day, fucking crack whore.

All true. I always wonder why men seem to fall for women like Madonna, someone who -despite her succes- is tacky and distasteful. And her post-Ritchie habit of having a new exotic toyboy (each time 30 years her junior a the least) every two years is getting stomach-churning.

I don't know if it's right to feel this way, but Penn claiming and winning every humanitarian price in reach annoys me. He's giving Bono from U2 a run for his money

I think it wouldn't hurt for Ritchie to go back to his roots. Ditch the gargantuan budgets and make movies with some heart and soul again. In my opinion the same can be said for Tarantino. While his last two movies were far from bad, I liked the style in his first movies way better. And to be honest, for me it doesn't really help that there are truckloads of hipster fanboys drooling over movies like Inglourious Basterds and Django Uchained.

There are 2 books about organized crime in Liverpool that sound particularly interesting:

The Cartel: The Inside Story of Britain's Biggest Drugs Gang

Young Blood: The Inside Story of How Street Gangs Hijacked Britain's Biggest Drugs Cartel

However, the problem is the criminals are almost all named by nicknames invented by the author, so you can't understand or guess who they really are. I was told that the gangster "Kallas" from the "Young blood" book is James "Pancake" Taylor and the "Baron" from "The Cartel" is Philip Glennon, still no clue about others. For example, who is "Fred the Rat" who is supposed to have created the cartel? I read on some forum his real nickname is "Bob the Dog".

But who is the guy in charge now in Liverpool? In mean, REALLY in charge, not as front boss? Glennon, Taylor or somebody else? And how does Curtis Warren fit in all this? Was he a big player or just somebody who got the headlines?

Two things spring to mind.
The female lead. Gorgeous.
The torture scene.
And the female lead....

Regards Tarantino: the guys a joke living off one half decent film. And even pulp wouldn't have been half as popular if it didn't serve as Travolta's Renaissance.

But honestly, Kill Bill? Django unchained? Laughable. The only reason Django unchained isn't panned is because people are afraid to be labeled racist if they dislike a movie about racism. How sad.

"Pulp Fiction" came out in '94, "Get Shorty" in '95. And while the former put Travolta's name on a movie poster for the first time since "Look Who's Talking," it was his latter performance that cemented his "comeback."

Entirely different films and characters. But Travolta was able to do something in "Get Shorty" that few actors have been able to pull off. He did justice to an Elmore Leonard character. In my opinion, Leonard was the greatest American crime novelist of all time. But his characters were very difficult to adapt for the big screen. Travolta, quite surprisingly, brought Chili Palmer to life. And in my opinion, that's the role that he owed his mid-'90s comeback to.

I'd take Hackman in Get Shorty over Travolta.

But then again I'd take pretty much anyone over Travolta in any given situation. Excluding Nicholas Cage.


Wtf was this thread about?

Pete Best.

Blasphemy. I'll take Dennis Farina over both of them.

Where's Chili Palmer? Where's Leo DeVoe? Where's my fucking money?

Django Unchained is a ridiculous movie, but I enjoyed it more than Kill Bill or Inglourious Basterds. What bothered me more was the invasion of metalheads and hipsters that were almost wanking off with each piece of dialogue Waltz delivered. They were simultaneously applauding the most laughable set pieces, such as the KKK-scene (which in my opinion was one big cringefest) or the hip hop music that out of the blue appeared during a wild west shootout (I was almost expecting 50 Cent to come bouncing into that scene).

You won't however hear me say a bad thing about Pulp Fiction. I love that movie to death

I'll take "Pancake" Taylor, Philip Glennon and Curtis Warren over any of them. Let's talk about them instead

It's hard to determine who's in charge. Liverpool posters may give you an answer to that.
But what makes it difficult is that British cities never have an unified crime syndicate. There are various different firms operating in one city.

And journalists in Britain rarely use real names of alleged gangsters, in fear of legal persecution. For instance, there's "The Taxman" in Nottingham, "Bird of Prey" in Liverpool,... Let's not forget Davey Hunt from Canning Town, who really had a libel claim running against the Sunday Times for openly calling him a "crime boss".

Regarding "Pancake" Taylor, I don't really know if he really was the kingpin the papers made him out to be. He had been connected to numerous criminal activities, but then again, he has also been signalled in ridiculous bar fights. Some of it is even on YouTube.