http://schedule.wttw.com/episodes/313462/The-Italian-Americans/La-Famiglia/Becoming-Americans/

This 2 part series looks pretty good. I have my DVR all set!

thanks

I record and watch all of the hyphen-American specials. Last one I remember is the Irish in America by Ken Burns. I think outsiders benefit more from these specials than members of the ethnic group because for a change we hear the story(ies) from the ACTUAL people and not from some distorted media viewpoint.

The first part of this series did a good job of outlining the oppression Southern Italians experienced in their native land, and the bigotry they encountered in America, leading to a strong sense of family coupled with distrust of authorities in the US. But, it overemphasized crime as a factor in Italian American immigrant life--particularly "Black Hand" and Mafia.

John Kobler, in his excellent Capone biography, notes that crime rates among Italian immigrants in America was quite low compared with other immigrants. "Black Hand"-type extortion wasn't exclusive to Italians--itwas common among Italian, Jewish, Irish and Chinese immigrants. Those groups came from countries in which average people regarded the authorities as enemies--making them easy prey for gangsters of their own kind because the gangsters knew their victims wouldn't go to the police. And, the Mafia never had more than~5,000 made men and associates at its peak in the late Forties.

I do wanna see it. I've noticed it's been on but I don't like to tune in the middle of it. Hopefully it's "On Demand."

I bought, for my father, several years ago a video called "Italians In America." At that time it only came in VHS and my parents were very old school and still had a VHS so it worked out well. They really enjoyed it and so did I.



TIS

So much for my comment about hearing stories from actual members of the group and not a distorted viewpoint.
It's a bit puzzling that a doc. by Italians would overemphasize organized crime. Did the doc. mention that media, then and now creates a perception that is stronger than the truth?

There was plenty of interesting commentary from ethnic Italian historians and descendants of immigrants. The crime stuff was in the script.

There was a fascinating account from a woman who was kidnapped and held for ransom as a 6-year-old by Black Handers.

I like anything ken burns does. and I think this one is fascinating, as far as gangsters go, they did lead the league. and they truly had a government within a government in the 40s 50s and 60s.

im not sure we know even now just how powerful they really were. there was a time when you could not buy a hairpin in Chicago without them getting a cut.

they may have had only 5ooo made men at their peak, but I bet throughout the country they had 100.000 associates.

I saw the first hour and it is terrific. I, too, was disappointed that the first scene of the documentary was a Godfather clip. Oh, well... whatta you gonna do? However, it was interesting to see the part about the first wave of Sicilians to New Orleans was from Palermo. My grandfather's family was part of that and some of them are still there thriving in business and life.

Watched the second hour of the first episode last night. This part did a good job of highlighting the prejudice Italian families experienced from "the authorities"--teachers who told kids to change their names so they'd be more pronounceable; inspectors who came to their homes and ordered mothers to open windows, stop swaddling their infants, and to feed the kids oatmeal (which immigrant Italians regarded as "pig food"). Also highlighted struggles and successes. The program detailed prejudice against Italians in the Irish-dominated Catholic Church--suppressing their saints, forcing them to worship in basements, etc.

The program gave space to Prohibition and its effect on organized crime. They noted that Irish and Jewish gangs dominated organized crime before Prohibition (true), then mentioned Frank Costello and Charlie Luciano as protégés of Arnold Rothstein (also true). They spent quite a bit of time on Costello. But his real heyday came after he became the boss of Luciano's gang after Luciano was imprisoned (1936) and Vito Genovese fled to Italy (1937)---well after Prohibition was repealed.

Also gave scant mention to Capone, which I thought was a mistake. Capone was one of three public figures that most Americans identified with "the Roaring Twenties" (the other two were Charles Lindberg and Babe Ruth). Chicago was the only major city in which an Italian gang dominated the booze rackets--and The Outfit under Torrio and Capone wasn't even Mafia, or even all-Italian. But, Capone was such an enormous, outsized public figure that--alas--he was almost singlehandedly responsible for associating Italian-Americans with organized crime. The show's writers had an opportunity to explain that, and to show how he was responsible for that smear on a whole group of people that endures today. They didn't.

Mary in the basement? Madonne! Relished those San Rocco day parades.

I'm looking forward to watching the first episode.

Want to see a pretty good movie about the "black hand" see Pay or Die starring Earnest Borgine pretty good movie.

I'm going to check out that film. Thanks.

good rundown Turnbull

About the case of the lynchings and terror unleashed on Italians in New Orleans following the death of the police chief....I wrote here on gangster bb during some of the Trayvon Martin threads

"Are you deliberately missing the point?
what you guys are writing almost verbatim sounds like the sentiments expressed in the press by assimilated whites about ethnic whites/immigrants who were victims of crime at the hands of "American" whites.
I have to beleive that you guys understand my point and are deflecting and using tangents to avoid it.
"Those people" are "insert stereotype" anyway, so never mind what happened to THIS one."

I was surprised to learn when viewing tonight's episode that there's only 15 million of us in America. Well, we 2nd generation paisani can't really to do anything about that, but you 3rd and 4th generations can. Get to work.

just caught some of the recorded earlier episodes


the narrated script for some of the parts sounded familiar


there's a doc. called "Pane Amaro" which covers the same material and which "influenced" the pbs doc.(they lifted a lot of lines from it)


it's on youtube in english and italian language

I watched the final 2 parts of this series. Very good stuff, guys. This is a must see for anybody interested in history and especially anyone of Italian-American ancestry.

I watched the last 2 episodes but have to wait to watch the first episodes (recording scheduled for March) I agree this is very important for any ITALIAN-American to view. Most of the discrimination against the Italians I already knew about from my grandma and older aunts and uncles. Now look at us, we are so successful! It only took two generations of back-breaking hard work to give us third, fourth, and fifth generations a life on easy street. Most ethnicities do not have it that good!!! Our people made it happen

Amen. I remember family members as hard working, dependable, responsible, conscientious and proud employees. No matter if they owned their own business or if they worked for somebody else.

I can recall several family functions when somebody was called into work on their day off because somebody that was scheduled that day didn't show up.

Italians have always been some of the most gifted and talented people who can do great things with their hands. Bakers, cooks, musicians, artists, textiles, sculpting, masonry, brick layers, construction, etc.

My grandfather was a tool & die maker during WW2. He could fix anything, make homemade vino, and hug you so hard your bones would pop... but you loved it!

My grandmother was an extremely talented seamstress and was in high demand for her gifts. Oh, and of course cook... doesn't that go without saying? She's a nonna!

So true Mark. Your family sounds wonderful. Beautiful people. I love how you talk about how hard your grandpa hugged you. So true. And how the aunts would pinch our cheeks so hard ouch. The way the women hover over the baby when she/he first learns to walk God forbid the kid falls over lol. Nonna...nobody could cook, clean or take care of you like your nonna. God bless her.

Work, work work, and work some more. I do not ever remember my grandparents or older Aunts and Uncles sitting still. They all had ants in their pants. The only time they would really relax was when we'd be down the shore.

My grandma was a seamstress too. She also used to help the Italian people in the neighborhood write money orders to send to Italy because she could read and write in both Italian and English. She said she made $15 a week doing that which was a lot of money back then lol Then later on she took over my Great Grandpa's store (he was a fruit vendor) to open up a luncheonette and had the best coffee in town. Her brother ran the deli next door.

My Grandpa graduated high school which was very uncommon in those days. He was an accountant.


Here's where our family was a little bit different...
My Great Grandpa on the other side was a priest. He came here in 1903 and used to give sermons at St. John's Cathedral in NYC until he decided to leave the priesthood when his father passed away. Then he met my great grandma and got married. We have mostly pharmacists, chemists and clergy (even bishops) on that side of the family. That side of the family is so interesting.

A good show. Wifey recorded it and I'm sure she will watch several times

I have not yet seen this show but plan to. I'd like to give a heads up to my family in Michigan about the show. I know my siblings would love to see it. Anyone know how I'd find the channel date/time it's on in Grand Rapids, MI? IF it's showing there. I went to link and did a Grand Rapids search but didn't see it.

Thanks

TIS

Looks like Sunday, TIS. Starting at 2 PM...


http://www.wgvu.org/tv/maintv.cfm?content=tv_schedule.cfm&CFID=34759769&CFTOKEN=34590184

Mark,

Thanks!! I'll give my brother a call and let him know and he can pass it on. IF my father were still alive it would be something he would really be interested in watching. Tho I think I saw the years covered were before my grandparents/father came here (1921)

Thanks again. I appreciate it.

TIS

You are more than welcome, TIS. Glad to help. Like I said, this is a great series and a must see for anybody of Italian-American heritage. Everyone is thinking of their grandparents after seeing this television gem.

The last two parts were very good. They focused on two very prominent Italian Americans: Fiorello LaGuardia, the renowned mayor of NYC (he grew up in my hometown here), and Generoso Pope, publisher of Il Progresso, the influential Italian American newspaper. Covered the infatuation with Mussolini in some Italian American quarters and its immediate demise after Pearl Harbor, and went on to prominent Italian American entertainers (mostly singers). Had a thoughtful review of the impact of "The Godfather" on the community. Overall: very good series.

For those who saw the 'Black hand" part, do you think the character in "The Untouchables" film was based on the Italian law enforcement official who sought to destroy black hand/mafia?

The real life cop's name sounded too close to "Giuseppe Petri" for it to have been a coincidence. Think the film makers were paying homage to him?