Thanks Sinatra.

@Memphis: Scott has some very good inside stuff. And he is able to connect the dots to make a plausible case for an opinion. And, ocasinally, he's gonna get something wrong. And, he was big enough to come on here & own it. For that alone, we all should cut him some slack. I try to be as polite as possible when pointing out discrepancies. What the fuck do I know???

At best, this is all anyone can hope to do, especially, since no one on this board is a member of LCN.

@NickyWhip,that is a great post indeed.Like Serpiente,I find all your post very informative.If I am not mistaken,Leonetti even stated that they warned Natale they would kill him at one point if he came back to Atlantic City.Maybe I am wrong but it seems that Natale was sort of like Frankie "Flowers" in that he was a big moneymaker with Bruno but Bruno never gave their "button" too.And they were untouchable under Bruno I suppose.And let me say you are not only "polite" as possisble but a gentleman infact.And I appreciate the shit out of yall guys that have and do live around these mobsters that I read about.

You're right. Natale was told to stay out of it. Frank Gerace ran that union for Scarfo. They were cousins. There was a ton of stuff going on at the Cherry Hill racetrack, that's where Natale worked. All walks going in and out. Can't help but make some connections. And I'm not discounting his relationship with Bruno; he did indeed have a good one. But, it was not a 50/50. more like 90/10

Here's what I think, from what I've heard over the years and what I've read -

Facts Scarfo was definitely on a direct collision course with Bruno. And it was all over power in AC. Scarfo didn't make an enemy out of Bruno, but rather played it very well. Lullabied him. Others have first hand witnessed that they were close and had meetings. They weren't alienated when Bruno met his demise.

Opinion: I think Scarfo was told by the Genovese, via Manna, to stay in the background; let them handle the situation. Be loyal and you will be rewarded. I think he knew the whole time that things were going to change; A power shift was coming. While, i'm sure the genovese never told him of their direct plan because he didn't need to know, he knew change was in the air.

At the end of the day, he capitalized on his situation. He was known as a very capable individual. And even if Natale had been on the street, I think he went down in 1978, he woulda disappeared.

Scarfo was well aware that Natale was a willing participant in the grab of Local 54. Scarfo put Gerace in and Bruno wanted Natale; but Scarfo beat him to the punch. The genovese and Chicago split that union after Bruno had it merged in an effort to get his guy (natale) in. And before Natale killed McGreal, it was McGreal with the union power.

EDIT- Frankie Flowers and Ralph Natale were not even close to being in the same league. Bruno genuinely respected Flowers. Joint Ventured and made a lot of money WITH him. From what I was told, by older guys who were very close to Flowers, he could have had his button, but was not into violence at all.

Anyone from Philly ever see Joey Chang around? Seems to be conflicting reports as to how severe his disability may be. I'm referring back to the mention on George Anastasia's site that claims Nicky Jr setup a meeting with Joey in 2007 to discuss taking over the Philly rackets. He must be of at least decent sound and mind for him to pose the offer?

Also,@NickyWhip.I'm pretty sure that Natale knew that Scarfo and Leonetti were not to be played with when it came to the unions.Look at McCullough and the roofers union.If I remember right,Bruno also had the other "chickie" in his ear,Narducci,who I believe would have eventually gotten Bruno to make a move against Scarfo and have him killed had Bruno lived.Narducci was a powerhouse as well,I believe.And it was Narducci that was actually in the background trying to muscle in his guys to get the union from Scarfo.Scarfo,was a damn smart gangster and seen it all coming.I also believe he was being fed info from Manna and did know that even though he and Bruno were on a collision course that Bruno had other problems.And as you said,stayed in the shadows and let it play out so once the move was made against Bruno he would step forward and be rewarded along with Phil Testa.I think Scarfo had plans to kill Narducci even before the move on Testa.

@Memphis - Chickie Narducci kind of confuses me. He was around that LCN shit for a long time. And he was a killer in his own right. There are at least 1 or 2 names from way back that he was accused of disposing. Yet, according to Leonetti, he didn't understand how things really worked.

I am not enamored by mob guys; I don't aspire to be like them. I am not involved in any kind of criminal activity. I am no police either. But, if you look at these guys like baseball trading cards, you can't ignore Scarfo's stats. The guy knew LCN inside and out. So much that he didn't start breaking the rules until after he came to power.

I know most think that Nicky sr. is a homicidal maniac . In his world he is not even close ,all the murders were justified .Now if you are a regular guy all but maybe Falcone / Salvie were the only ones that were not business.

But this little guy knew the moves in this life ,and just like Whip/Mafia are saying the writing was on the wall.
The "westside" seen all this coming ,the neighborhood falling apart in NY and much of the business heading to Jersey,and wanting it and giving back a little too get it.

I can tell you from being right there, and not knowing a dam thing of what was about to go down, that it was a frightening time for them, cos everyone was committing treason and not knowing the out come.The street was on lock down.They knew everyone coming and going.
Not one person out side of Nick and Phil could have known what Salerno/Caponigro were up to if they even knew through Manna.
But I do know like I said ,it was a scary time ,cos Bruno was going to make a move on Nick ,and this we all did know.(the lil guy was getting to big)

But if all this was planed it may be the best triple cross ever.

And yes jr.was going to take a shot at taking rackets from Philly I don't know if taking over the Philly family was what he was doing(Maybe taking the good rackets)and don't think for one minute that some Philly guys were not with him. He did have a good amount, and heavy guys with him from quite a few places.

Serpiente - You and your friends must be sitting on a bunch of wild stories about those days.

Two of the best Philly posters on this site. I put them in the same class as Chucky/Philly from the other sites (who I wish would post here).

PB : Thanks, but you know like I know, when you are in it, it's not like it is different.
Looking back and posting here, makes ya feel like it was someone else,cos it not like what people are reading here,you are living it does not seam important ,it is and was everyday life.

I hope that came out right , not good at putting words to paper.

Pizza: what's the other board? I'd love to join another quality thread(s) on NY and Philly especially... I sort of feel like some good posters have left or stopped posting as much on this forum for various reasons... Tried to PM you and didn't work btw... Thanks!

Jersey shore or the Long Island Sound. Different waters, same scores.

You grew up with it, or you read about it online. And if you've spent five minutes around the life, it's very easy to differentiate between the two.

As an aside, I'm not taking a shot at the serious researchers here. Guys like Ivy and Hairy contribute things that I'd never be able to research in a million years, nor would I try.

I post what I believe to be true about an area I've lived in, and people who I've known, for more than fifty years. And I never post anything remotely incriminating about people who are still alive and/or on the street.

The fastest way to get outed on a site like this is to be from, say, New York, then claim to have intimate knowledge of Chicago, Detroit, Philly, Montreal, and everywhere else. Because the average street guy's world is no bigger than his zip code. And in this day and age he's not gonna know shit about LCN activity outside his own backyard.

Nicky : I did not know how fun, crazy, exciting, important, dangerous it was.
It's not till I was stuck home a few years back(surgery) and found this site that I realized people were into the life.
I know it sounds stupid ,but true.
And yes when we get together it is a blast ,and we still do get out and go away ,well the ones that are alive or on the street.

The best part is the walks of life we all have taken from gangster to school teacher to trash man....
And no I am not the trash man (not that there is anything wrong with that)
We came up in a small town that was in ruins and watched it grow to a fun and great place for a male to grow up in.
Most don't know but pretty much we ran this town, and LE had no problem with it as long as we did it right.

Yes" I agree 100% I don't even read the paper ,let alone research.....

Thanks PB. How's your dad doing? Better I hope. I didn't know all the books were out there on Philly mob stuff. But, once I found this site and started reading stuff, all those stories I heard and things I saw started making sense. And Once I saw the Stuff Serp was saying, well, let's just say I know he ain't a researcher. Hard knocks. He's in between my age and my older neighbor and family persons age.

@PizzaBoy,make no mistake I have been a member here over 2 years but stayed on the sidelines reading much longer.And I value your word on all the New York families just the same.Many years now I have set down with dinner and just read what yall guys up there have grown up around.Pretty damn interesting stuff.Serpiente,really the way you tell the way your neighborhood was on alert,I can almost picture it in my mind.I agree with Nickywhip,that must have been pretty crazy around the time Bruno was killed and Scarfo and Leonetti were taking over.Must be great stories,indeed

One of those Philly mob docs has a photo of Joey Chang, walking next to someone and he's walking with a cane in one hand. Which implied to me that the photo may have been from after his shooting. He didn't look that bad other than an obvious limp. But then again, that picture could totally be prior to his assassination attempt.


And I think Scarfo messed up with the Frankie Flowers hit. Like Whip said, and from what I've read, D'Alfonso wasn't a violent guy. And in Caramandi's book, he says before he was killed, he was called in by him and Iannece and that they asked him if he was on good terms with "the little guy" and he said he was. Which means he didn't expect to be killed or that he had a real problem. One of his underlings was selling drugs or something, and either wouldn't pay the tax, or owed some money. And being D'Alfonso's responsibility, he caught the brunt of the retribution. Shame because according to Caramandi, D'Alfonso had numerous sitdowns over the kid and vouched for his life. And he just kept side stepping and got his guy killed. You kind of feel bad for Frankie Flowers, if all that stuff is true.

If PB hasn't messaged it to you, I will, just let me know.


Interesting thing is though, I damn near repeated almost word for word some of what Whip said and a few things from Scotts article in a Trevor McDonald thread over there, and Philly disagreed, to say the least. I think Whip is right though. And its not like I really know, but from all I've come to know about Natale, pretty much points to that. From the "I married a Mobster" episode the girl did on him, in which she also says he mislead her into believing he was something he wasn't. The various Philly mob docs. And Natale's testimony and the counter defense Merlinos team threw at him, which is recorded in various Philly.com articles, it supports pretty much all of it and my sentiments about Natale.

I don't know why he was killed,but he would not pay the right amount of moneys that he was supposed to Period .
In that life and your making money and the boss says thousand a day it's a thousand a day.
Nick was not playing after he gave the guy a hundred chances.
It's the life they chose ,they make ten thousand a day ,you got to pay the boss.

I apologize for that, Pal. It's not you personally. You seem like a nice and respectful kid. But there's a poster here who takes perverse pleasure in fooling people old enough to be his father, then taking their private messages and hacking their email accounts. I don't want to get into the whole thing again because it's been dead for a while now, so let's let sleeping dogs lie there.

On a lighter note, Sinatra Club has kindly offered to reply to your pm with the information that you're seeking. He's a quality poster and I vouch for him a hundred percent.

In closing, hopefully, the day will come when they lock this menace up and I can open my pm again. Until then, there's always the open board. And thank you for the kind words.

PB

never personally saw the guy (I would guess he lives a pretty low key life,) but I have been told by several people he is a huge mess and to this day he can't walk without crutches.

Bingo, just had to quote this for truth. And to emphasize again that Nicky sr was not just some mad hatter serial murderer. He ruled in a violent, treacherous time, and was 100% rules first, by the book. The only hit that went down on his watch that really threw people for a loop was Testa, and honestly I'm sure he wasn't the first guy in history to get it for being too big for his britches.

Was Testa really "too big for his britches" though? From all that's said about him, he was %100 loyal to Scarfo and had no qualms with playing his position. That newspaper article got him in trouble, and it isn't like he said any of it, its what the author viewed, I guess. Other than calling off a wedding, which he shouldn't have been killed for, the guy just fell out of love apparently. He followed CN rules to a tee. By all accounts it was Scarfo being insecure, he felt threatened by Testa, his lineage, his wit, his loyal crew, apparently his neighborhood loved him. Or was there more to it, Philly guys?

Jesus Christ, if you're killed for essentially being too good of a wise guy.

Well you all so had guys in his ear,and those guys wanted Sal's rackets if he was out of the picture.
Yogi was in Nicks ear all the time for his brother of course.
Them guys were ruthless if you had rackets that if they had anyway to get in the ear of the boss ,thats what was going to happen.

Down right ruthless,each and everyday they are in that life,till they get to skipper then they had a little breathing room and then you see what they did to Salvi .

I don't know if it was so much insecure, as it was watching the rise of Bruno, and then that fall,if you were boss and all the treacherous moves that just went down and the ones he seen before that. Damm you or I may be on guard also.
Two bosses dead right before you would make me on guard.

I honestly feel that Leonetti played a larger role in Testa's death.He thought he "Leonetti" was the future of the family.He watched as Testa avenged his fathers death and killed the guys who were involved including the previously mentioned powerhouse Narducci.He watched as Salvie built an incredibly loyal,young,ruthless crew.He watched as Salvie and this same crew not only were the front lines of the Riccobene war.But his crew alone won the war.Then Leonetti watched as Salvie Testa was written about in wall street Journal and described as the "future" of Philly mob.Leonetti's jealousy peaked and then he watched finally as Testa was engaged to Merlino's daughter and saw this as a final power play.Now,I am not saying that Scarfo was not weary and watchful over Testa.But in my heart I truly feel Leonetti,so ruthless,was the one who pushed his uncle out of fear and jealousy.Nicky "Crow" and Tommy Del sort of touch on this.

In terms of my sources, I'm admittedly unique. Not many authors, especially at my age (37) have been published in writing about three diff mafia families (Det, Chi, Phil). I'm lucky to have done it. and from those endeavors and George Anastasia being my mentor/penning the Crazy Phil autobio and me spending the 2000s living in Chi & working for the Illiois Atty Gen's Office, ive got pretty good sources in all three cities - for those who don't know Det is my hometown and current place of residence. Now, Ive also reported having sources in New England, which right now are my weakest crop, but I think improving. My connection to Boston/Prov comes from me having a good deal of family in the area, trying unsuccessfully to get Cadillac Frank's autobio off the ground, my two cousin cops in Massachusetts "Staties" introducing me to some sources and getting a few LE contacts there via other LE contacts I already had. Its been an interesting ride this past decade. I can understand some of the doubters saying "how the fuck does this dude in Detroit know whats up in Philly, etc."


Scott Burnstein

MemphisMafia, interesting theory and not at all crazy. Leonetti and Salvie were both young guys, they were both the future of the family. It's possible Leonetti had a great deal of influence in the killing.


As for Salvie being loyal, sure, that's what's written everywhere... But does that stop Nicky Scarfo from believing(and possible be right) that Salvie will make a move on him in next 5 or 10 years? Young guy, very powerful. Nicky being the way he is, he probably thought that Salvie will for sure move on him and he decided to nip it in the bud, before Salvie even gets a chance to think about it.


And great posts NickyWhip&Serpiente, good stuff!

Leonetti, Caramandi, DelGiorno, Gino Milano, Yogi Merlino, all of these guys, mainly the first three have all said Salvie wouldn't of moved against Nicky Scarfo. Scarfo was like a father to him, according to these guys and an uprising was the last thing on Salvie Testa's mind.

@ ScottBurnstein:

Scott make no mistake your contributions are appreciated. Very much so.

But you use sources, which in this game, are open to compromise, conjecture, misdirection, conflict of interest etc etc. So, in company of the top posters on this board, your words are appreciated, and taken with gratitude but also, understandably with a modicum of healthy scepticism.

It isn't personal. Nobody's word should be taken as gospel. And that's a good thing. Valid debate is healthy. Your contributions are respected, but not infallible is all

My personal thanks for your website. A valued read.