Frankie Lo," If we beat this case, I'm going to kill him (Gotti)."

Sammy," your right he's gotta go. But I'll tell u one thing, I've done too much. I'm not taking anybody as boss, I'm taking over".

So, had they beaten the case...Were Sammy & Franlie Lo strong enough to completely take over....

sammy," I made a list, of all the people we'd have to kill to get away with it and have no retribution. It consisted of hoc brother Gene who I liked very much, his brother Pete. The thought of killing his son sickened me. 10,12 guys maybe 15. "

In all honesty, other than Gotti jr and maybe Gene, I personally don't think there'd be much retribution for taking out Gotti

Gene by then was in jail anyway granted he still had some guys on the street but there was nothing he could personally do himself

Pete ain't doing anything... No idea why he would even need to include him on the list..

Jackie nose? I think he'd just kowtow to the new administration. Jojo Carazzo? Prob same

Thoughts?

Bullshit.

You're acting as if that's from a wiretap. It's a bullshit claim made by a midget rat who isn't half the fucking man that Frankie Loc is. Til this fucking day.


I think Tommy put in well.


The end.

Sammy seems like the biggest piece of shit to ever to be involved with the Mob. Save a few, he was the most duplicitous and self serving I've ever heard about.

Another hypothetical question thread....What if Gotti had a different underboss....but he didn't.

he should have joe arcuri, after frankie d got killed..

its always either mikeyballs or someone from the UK who makes these threads

I think Sammy put that part about him n frank killing gotti in the book to get franks son killed and create chaos in the family and take eyes off of Sammy's kids. He said his brother in-law told him to flip in 90 this guy eddie g been in jail since 2001 now 15 years he was a construction big be could of talked his way out of jail but didn't so Sammy's book is bullshit. I always wonder about Eddie his brother in-law a Brooklyn guy with a last name probaly related to all them old heaveys. Sammy did his best in the book baiting peoe to kill his old ex friends or enemy's.

That's actually very plausible, pmac. Because when that book came out (1997?), there was already a lot of tension between Tore and Junior over Scores. Greg instigated it. But like I said, it's all bullshit anyway.

And just for the record, Tore is smarter than any of the Gravano kids. That's almost comical. And he's more of a man than Sammy ever was, just like his father (Frankie).

Who cares. If you don't like it, don't post. Simple.

Yes.

No why would u assume "I'm acting like its a wiretap"????

Which part did u read where I stated it's a wiretap?

I simply quoted what came out of Sammy's mouth. Just because some of u think he's lying it doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it. 90% of stuff on these forums are mostly baseless

And I know your a respected member of this forum PB, but even most of the stuff u say are based entirely on your own opinion. Unless u are the guy giving out orders and still in the life, but even if u were, again it's still your own personal opinion and not a fact.

As for Frankie Lo wanting to kill Gotti, well according to NY Daily, court papers revealed Locasio sued to get out of solitary confinement. He was put there after "Gotti aledegedly put a hit out on him through the AB"

Whether true or not I think both me & you will never know.

With all due respect, please don't tell me what I know and what I don't know. I'm a fair-minded person and one of the few local guys who always defends the European members here. Some guys act like you guys shouldn't even have an interest in American organized crime, and I'm always saying that that's bullshit.

Ask Tommy Gambino or Dom Woods, both from England, like yourself. Or Sonny Blackstein, for that matter, who's Australian. Or Hairy Knuckles, who's a Swede, and the best researcher I'ver ever met online.

But again, please don't tell me what I know. Are you almost 56 years old, Italian American, and live in the East Bronx your whole life? Do you know the LoCascios personally? I'm not going into my life here. Some members here know me personally and my reputation here speaks for itself. In almost ten years here, I've never contradicted myself on matters concerning the Bronx or East Harlem and certain other areas. And there's a very good reason for that. I don't claim to be anything I'm not, but I'm not some kid on Wiki or reading this shit in books (and for the record, I'm not claiming that you are, either).

I don't like to argue, and I very rarely post about areas outside of New York. And that's because I usually only post about things that I personally believe to be true. Whenever you get a guy who claims to be an insider, but he knows everything about everything from New York to Chicago to Detroit, he's full of shit. Because for 99 percent of street guys, their entire world is no bigger than their own neighborhood.

So again, and respectfully, you're entitled to your opinion. But don't go telling me that there are things that we'll BOTH never know about. Because you're so far out of line with a statement like that, that it's not even worth arguing about.

Have a good night (or day, I think it's already morning over there ).

PB

PB, this is the part where you've misunderstood me

U can find in my reply where I said "even if your in the life or the boss giving out orders", what I'm trying to say is that I don't doubt u or anyone else for that matter is in the life/ or was in the life or know of the life firsthand

BUT whatever u or they recount on an Internet forum is still your own personal opinion. Now I'm not saying your lying or they're lying

And I'll give u an example. Suppose somebody on here asks why so and so got whacked. You/ they give an honest answer to the best of your knowledge (from either directly participating or knowing someone who committed the offence) or hearsay on the streets

Point is, how do we know it's the absolute truth or not? So again I'm not calling u a liar but I'm simply saying nobody knows for sure. Which is why we're on a discussion forum.



And how does that relate to said thread/ sammy? Well again Sammy is recounting a story, people on here are calling him a liar. U asked do I know the LoCasio's personally or not. Doesn't matter if I do or don't. Just because I know the LoCasio's, I'll just be recounting my version/ their version of events to the best of my knowledge. Is it the absolute truth? Nobody knows for sure

Therefore this is why we're here discussing it. And please don't take this the wrong way

It's not personally directed at u.

As for others who dislike hypothetical threads, guess what? We're on a Internet forum bullshitting about guys who have been dead for decades at times..

Life is all about what if's... What if I stayed with this girl, would life have turned out different

What if I took up on law instead of my media degree, would I be making more money? Humans ask themselves these questions everyday

Now I'm not saying - ask yourself "can I back flip to the moon?"

If u are, then go see the dr. But a thread discussing if Sammy could have taken over isn't far fetched from reality. He's a born killer & had the means to take over
Granted this trial was "fixed" on the governments part but suppose they beat the trial (consider Gotti beat his other trials) then who knows what would have happened

Tony has a point here... I mean what the fuck, it's an internet discussion board about a slowly dying phenomenom called Cosa Nostra (at least in the US)
I don't mind the hypotheticals and the what if's, if they make an interesting discussion so be it.
I think his point is that you can't be 100% sure about shit that you obviously never participated in, like hits, conspiracies, etc which provides a lot of ground for discussions and hypotheticals. I agree with this.

Some people will get annoyed at ANYTHING posted on here, no matter what it is. (not talking about PB here)
Some poeple just get annoyed when specific names are mentioned like Sammy, etc.
Some people just enjoy trolling, fucking around and being a general pain-in-the ass. Everybody's different okay, but if we stop making hypothetical threads, if we stop discussing certain people, if we cater to everybody's specific preferences, then pretty soon this board will die a quick death.

Bottom line is, if you don't like the thread, then don't post. Natural evolution at its best applies to the threads here too... if most members don't like it, then it will go down at the bottom of the board pretty quick and die off.. if it's interesting then a lot of members will contribute and it'll make for an interesting discussion or debate.

You talk a lot of sense, Malandrino. As always.

We can talk about how sammy was a garbage can all day long but the truth is, most of these guys are like that. Sammy didnt become underboss or captain of a strong crew for nothing, wiseguys are self absorbed sociopaths by nature. Some guys are an exception but think about this: what type of guy steals, cheats, and deceives every single day of his life? An honorable man you can trust? Someone you can count on ?

And have I ever posted anything to the contrary, Belmont?

When the kids here start cheerleading, who's the first guy to jump in with a reality check. They're all murderers, liars, and thieves. Yet to some people, they only become "bad" people when they rat.

Whether Gravano and Locascio could have taken over or not, I never had trouble believing the orange story which preceded the excerpt in the original post. I don't think Gravano had much reason to just invent such a story and it certainly sounds plausible considering Gotti's ego.

very true..lol

At least somebody understands what I'm trying to say. But then again, we're from similar places and similar stock. That's all I was trying to say. But I'm glad that all of my so-called European friends were quick to defend me. But I guess an Ugly American is an Ugly American.

Anyway, thanks, Bronx. But I don't want to sidetrack things any further. I have too much on my head to begin with, and that's when I tend to get out of line here.

So let's get it back on track: Sammy was murderous garbage when he was on the street, and he's garbage now. I never need them to rat to make that distinction and call some of these guys garbage.

I hope that Graves condition is hereditary. I'd love to see that bald shrunken head on his fat pig daughter (and anyone else associated with that scumbag reality show, for that matter).

Here is the reference of the Orange as reported by Capeci:
http://www.streetgangs.com/billboard/viewtopic.php?t=48407

Aryan Brotherhood targets Frank Locasio gambino soldier
by mayugastank » June 18th, 2010, 4:16 pm
GOTTI UNDER FIRE FEDS SAY HE WANTED PAL SLAIN IN PRISON
By JERRY CAPECI and GREG B. SMITH

Wednesday, September 9th 1998, 2:05AM

Imprisoned crime boss John Gotti allegedly ordered the killing of a long-time friend and top adviser after learning the man threatened to murder him.

Federal officials say Gotti put out a contract on Frank (Frankie Locs) Locascio, one-time consigliere of the Gambino crime family, after reading that Locascio wanted to kill Gotti.

The 65-year-old Locascio who was placed in solitary confinement as a result of Gotti's alleged threat insisted he was in no danger and sued prison officials to get out of solitary, court papers reveal.

The inflammatory passage in "Underboss," the tell-all tome by Salvatore (Sammy Bull) Gravano, describes an incident in which Locascio, in prison with Gotti and Gravano in 1991, gave him a stolen orange before offering one to Gotti.

Gotti became furious and loudly belittled Locascio in front of other inmates. Later, Gravano said, a humiliated Locascio tearfully vowed to murder Gotti, stating, "The minute I get out, I'm killing this [expletive]."

Gravano says he and Locascio then made a pact to kill Gotti at a victory party if they ever got out of jail.

"Frankie said, 'Sammy, two things. I'll bring him to the party myself, and I got to be the shooter,' " Gravano says in "Underboss."

According to law enforcement sources and court papers, an infuriated Gotti, who is serving a life sentence in Marion, Ill., reached out last year to the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang to kill Locascio.

Sources said they believe that two members of the white supremacist group were used in 1994 by one of Gotti's associates in a murder-for-hire contract.

At some point, federal prison officials in Marion allegedly caught Gotti complaining about the Locascio passage on video cameras, a source said.

Without identifying Gotti, prison officials said in court papers "a possible 'contract' has been put on [Locascio's] life by his former Mafia associates." Three law enforcement sources confirmed Gotti put out the contract.

The alleged plot against Locascio first surfaced in court papers last month when he filed suit against prison officials to be let out of solitary at the U.S. Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Mo.

In court testimony Aug. 19, James Baker, special investigative agent for the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, confirmed, "I was informed there was a million-dollar wet contract out on [Locascio]."

In prison terms, Baker said, a "wet contract" means "anybody can pick it up. If a nut over in a cellblock somewhere was to do the contract, he would get awarded the money. A wet contract is just open for anyone."

Some sources, however, say Gotti specifically "reached out" to the Aryan Brotherhood.

Baker testified that he contacted an FBI agent in New York on Aug. 7 "to ascertain if the contract, this contract that they had talked about, was valid. He said, yes, in fact it was."

On Aug. 20, Missouri Federal Judge Russell Clark ordered that Locascio be kept in isolation, stating, "The evidence establishes that [Locascio], at 65 years old, may well spend the rest of his life in administrative segregation because of the potential 'contract' on his life."

Gotti's attorney, Bruce Cutler, said yesterday that the alleged death plot was a hoax aimed at keeping Gotti behind bars in Marion while damaging attempts to free his son, John A. (Junior) Gotti, on bail pending racketeering charges.

Locascio's attorney, Scott Leemon, declined to comment while the prison suit was pending.

I remember that, Beans. But the Feds have used Capeci to tickle the wire before. And 1998 was smack in the middle of the Scores case.

It's a plausible enough scenario, but I truly believe that it's not beyond the Feds to plant stories like that to start internal beefs. They don't care who they get killed. Their excuse for not warning Louie DiBono that his life was in danger is laughable.

John CLEARLY says his last name on tape and that he's dying for not coming in. Just like poor Breezy, who was no threat whatsoever. Gotti wanted an excuse to give Connecticut to Tommy Gambino because he knew that Tommy would be happy as Braciole's puppet. Breezy wouldn't. But what the fuck do I know?

Wow, I was not aware that they didn't warn DiBono. That's not right.

That's rite around the time lewis kasman was talking to the feds about gotti wanting to kill the warden in marion . a million dollars. It doesn't add up. Gotti would have had franks kid whacked cause he was so spiteful. He didn't even strip the kids so maybe was a plant.

By the way, considering the fact they didn't warn DiBono when he was about to be killed by Gotti, why did they warn Gotti when he was about to get killed by Gigante and Manna? What's the difference between these 2 cases, why did they act differently?

Because the Feds wanted Gotti for themselves. No other reason. Do you really think they warned Gotti out of the goodness of their hearts but forgot to do likewise with DiBono? Please.

John Gotti was Public Enemy Number One at the time. They wanted him for themselves, not dead in the street. DiBono was just small potatoes to them.

But convicting Gigante for Gotti's murder would have made headlines too, wouldn't it? Did they want Gotti more than they wanted Gigante?

Hello Pizza, or wanted John to plot and strike vs chin. the G is pretty good at that also..

Absolutely. They don't care who they get killed. But their excuse for not warning DiBono was hilarious. Gotti CLEARLY says DiBono on tape, and the Feds claim that they thought he was talking about Louie Milito, who had already been dead for two or three years. What a joke.