I would like to say that to each his own with this transgender stuff but I just can't. Being gay or lesbian is one thing but changing your gender really bothers me. I can't imagine someone dating a person thinking he/she is a male or female only to find out that he/she changed gender. To me, it's completely disgusting. I do not think I will ever accept it.

I don't care about the Jenners or the Kardashians, I look forward to the day where I don't have to hear about them.

I watched the Met game last night, I wouldn't have watched it if I wasn't watching the game. It is all for t.v. and ratings these people will do anything to stay/be in the news. They are becoming irrelevant so they need something like this to boost their fan base. I do think it is funny that how big a deal it is with all that is going on in the world these people are on the front page of the news. They are winning

I try to live by "not my wife not my life," I don't care how people want to live, I live my life how I see fit they do what they do that being said god forbid a gay or lesbian wants to defend their country, the constitution and our rights. It's not like a gay man is wearing a hot pink fatigues and is scared to break a nail



Probably would be very uncomfortable if I was on a date and found out the women is actually a man that is where I would have to draw the line.

Alfanosgirl, totally agree..transgender is the beyond the threshold of acceptance for me. It just should never be taken seriously as a physical condition, its psychological and should be treated as such. Cutting off/adding bits to bodies and pretending your the opposite sex is just plain wrong and yes, disgusting.

Except science shows that it is a physical condition. Trangenders have both different gene sequences in the NR3C4 and CYP17, and different brain structure in the Stria terminalis

Well if thats correct, its still only the cause, not the treatment. Surely treatment should never at any stage be to start slicing and dicing genitalia and creating freaks? Surely psychological support would help people cope better with the problem? You cant go changing peoples sex..they will never really be accepted seriously by anyone they meet.

Yes Helen, but with XX and XY chromosomes determining their outward gender, what would that make them at the very best? Androgynous? My point is that you can't prove that someone is really a man and not a woman, or really a woman and not a man, by using DNA, while simultaneously ignoring the glaring presence of the XX and XY.

If Bruce Jenner has XY throughout his body, he is male. End of story. And he admitted as much in the same interview wherein he declared himself a bonafide woman. He said he has "a feminine side". Well there it is, Ladies and Gentlemen. If he is a woman, why would he have a "feminine side"? You only have a feminine side, if you are a man.

I say he is just a gay man that wants to cross dress and role play in the bedroom, and he's trying to make himself seem more complex and mysterious ("transexual") than what he actually is (which a lot of women tend to do also btw).

But sex and gender are different. Sex is biological, so your point regarding chromosomes above applies there. You can turn a penis into a vagina but would still have male genes.

Gender is characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine. So while you can't change your biological sex, you can change gender. Which is what trans people do.

I also don't think Bruce Jenner is the ideal example of trans people. He came across quite strange in his interview, or at least in the clips I bothered to watch.

Like, where he wants to be a woman, but is still attracted to women but wouldn't then consider himself a lesbian. That's the opposite of what most trans people would think/how they identify.

The only thing that really bothers me about trannies is when they want to be called by the opposite label and use opposite bathrooms and stuff like that when they haven't even had an operation yet. Taking pills and wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman. Being gay is fine, changing sexes is weird but not something I lose sleep over, but you at least gotta get your Wang chopped off before you call yourself a woman

I would never accept them as the opposite gender, no way. Whatever you're born as is what you are. There's disabled kids and kids with down syndrome who would love to just have a normal life. And then you have there's these nuts complaining about their gender.

Fuckin Whacko.

But can't you see, that if gender is nothing but what society dictates and nothing more, then there is nothing to change. You are talking about changing a social construct, not the person. So it is immaterial, and he is still male with a bunch of ever shifting social constructs swarming through his mind. Understand?

he's going to piss off nickyeyes1, first he's going to move to Chicago, then he's going to have a try-out with the white sox. or it it she?

Although he said that he "feels" like a woman and is biologically a man who is attracted to women, he said that he's asexual and has no interest in having sex with anyone. He's 65 years old and wants to stay celibate for the rest of his life.

The side issue of the cause of this brought up by Alfanosgirl is on the money. The argument we hear is that it's either biological or a choice. That's really an either/or fallacy that leaves out the truth: it's developmental. There's no known biological or genetic reason for homosexuality or transgenderism despite all the research that's gone into it. Yet the explanation that Alfanosgirl pointed out should be obvious to everyone. During the earliest years of childhood development some behaviors are encouraged so you get more of them. It's not only basic behavioral psychology, but basic economics.

No,because there's self identifying as well which is part of gender identity. And if people want to go through hormones and surgeries to change themselves I have no issues with it. Like I said up thread it causes me no injury.

I guess we see it differently. And that's fine, the world would be less interesting if we all thought the same way. I take no issue with opposing views,especially when people can disagree and discourse repectfully. But I don't now, and never will take issue with what other people do as long as they don't hurt anyone.

But that's just it Helen, he has killed someone, very recently. Several days ago to be precise. Maybe you didn't hear about it? The car accident?

You see, he might have had that accident because what he is going through is very painful, thinking that by changing an immaterial social construct he can change his very soul.

I think everyone mocking Bruce needs to stop because he might kill again.

He mentioned on the TV interview that he thought about taking himself out to end his pain. So this is not harmless. We can encourage him and empower him, but where is his pain coming from then? We can call him a her, and let her use the lady's room, and serve in the military amongside fighting men while wearing lipstick, yet he is still in pain. So something is wrong there and it's not society oppressing him. Maybe just maybe his pain is because he bought into the line of bullschitte that he was born into the wrong body. Of course he will try to kill himself if he can't get a sex change, because, after all, he's in the wrong body.

???

Dude, youre hilarious


Bruce may just be a shitty driver, like all women

ok somewhat related to topic

Does anybody here know where the term or phrase "gay Bruce" comes from?

I saw a special about the Incredible Hulk tv show and they explained why the TV character was David Banner and not Bruce Banner like in the comic book. Something about a phrase term "gay Bruce" from the 1970s...and while that wasn't the direct reason....it impacted the decision to change the name of the character for tv.

Now I remember watching the doc. and, having never heard of the term or slang, thinking that it was a joke. I thought that Bruce Jenner's popularity in the 1970s would have removed any stigma that there was attached to the name Bruce. Wheaties boxes, tv appearances,endorsements..you name it. Coming off his decathlon gold and for several years after I cannot think of a more popular American sports figure in the mid to late 70s.

He's basically going to fit into the same category as Michael Jackson, which he'll no doubt secretly love.

Speaking of the hulk- If Bruce Banner gets a sex change, does that mean The Hulk is a lady now, too? Or would The Hulk have to get his own procedures? And how would that work??? Are there even scalpels strong enough to perform surgery on him? Would his Hulk form be affected by hormone therapy?

Even worse, would the hulk then get PMT?!

I'm not going to be mean, but Monthy Python predicted this bullshit going back 30 years now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

Stan: It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But you can’t have babies.
Stan: Don’t you oppress me.
Reg: Where’s the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?

There is no science-based medicine reason to do this procedure. People that undergo this monstrosity have either the same or higher rates of suicide post op. Most of the time, the entire thing is paid for by the government or your insurance company- both raising the rates/tax dollars for everyone.

Then, on top of all this, these people come to your work and send emails DEMANDING that you call this man with no unit a "woman" in all conversations. Sorry, you don't get to change the fucking discourse and how I use the language. If someone came in tomorrow said he was "Napoleon" and demanding he was to be referred to as "Emperor of the French"- who would allow this bullshit.

Finally, as documented by harvard psychologist steven pinker- this is a long running trend in an attempt to say there is no difference between men and women. Which is the liberal dream- the deconstruction of the family, any gender distinctions, any small societies beyond the government.

Yup, the androgynous Far Left fantasy. A Black guy, married to a post-op White "woman," raising a baby born in China. God Bless America.

Nicky, thats the problem, as I said earlier, your work will essentially demand that you DO entertain the person's fantasy and call her Brenda from Monday onwards. If not, you'll have to leave and no doubt be made to feel like a closet trannyphobe-or whatever name society eventually is forced to call people.

Its not a case of live and let live, its the fact you will be forced to join in with the "Emperors new clothes" bullshit. As I said, its ALREADY happened at my fathers old workplace. The women were forced to accept this guy using their toilets - a 6foot guy with long hair and a dress trying to force conversation about make up etc with female co-workers was just creepy and everyone thought so. But mention it, or attempt to be offended, and you can clear your desk.

The gays have already won the culture war here in America, and I honestly don't care. It's over. You can't unring a bell, and I don't give two shits what two adults do in their own bedrooms. But two things:

1) Don't force it on my Church (which they've essentially already done by barring Catholic Charity adoptions because they won't allow gays to adopt).

2) My kids are grown. My son just turned twenty, and he's the youngest. They're all straight. But had one of them been gay, I would have lived with it for THEIR happiness. But God forbid one of them was in the guidance counselor's office back in high school, and someone tried to coax them into a gay lifestyle, I probably would have killed someone. And, unfortunately, I mean that. Let nature take its course, and let these kids decide for themselves.

So again, if you're gay, you're gay. But as far as this androgyny goes:

Both sides (Left and Right) are all too quick in invoking the Founding Fathers of this country. Well, I like to think I'm a Centrist. But I do lean a little left or a little right depending on the situation. But what do you think the Founding Fathers would think of an androgynous world?

Yeah, that's what we broke away from England and fought countless (and often pointless) wars for: Androgyny .

Thanks to the complicity of the left wing media and moderate democrats who voted democrat but would rather have died before seeing their son's kiss another man.

Do these people still vote for these dems?

Having views that lean to the left or right depending on the situation is EXACTLY how any truthful and right minded person should think PB. You wont find many politicians who would admit thinking that way, which is mainly why they cant be trusted.

The acronym, LGBT is a clue in itself as to how this will play out. For some reason, the "tranny community" is becoming more vocal (in whatever pitch), probably wound up by others in that acronym getting their agenda on the table and it wont be long before crazy equality demands are made. I can see it now, 2 sex changed people having a kid...thatll be nice for the child eh.

Unfortuantely, this type of person will never honestly be treated seriously by any right minded people, and its unfortunate for everyone.

As Ive said before, if I were gay, I would be outraged that I was lumped in the same group as transexuals.

Is Bruce Jenner basically saying he's a eunuch?

The emergence of the T in the "LGBT" helps the gay community because by comparison they are more "normal" to many straight people.

I joked in a thread before about how outsiders can't keep up with whatever new term a specific group is using to identify as. The same guy who forgot to go to jail and tell Billy Batts that Tommy don't shine shoes anymore isn't getting the word out fast enough about these new terms.

Maybe 2 years ago, I read that using the term "sexual preference" is now either offensive or wrong. The correct term is now "sexual orientation" because apparently preference indicates choice..and yada yada yada.
It's cool, have no problem using the correct term.

The golden rule states that the ones with the gold make the rules. Lot of very power and influential people in that LGBT community, so this is just how it is.

There ARE gays in the military. My daughter works for the Army and they have been instructed on how to handle and address gay couples. I don't think I've ever seen any though.
Back when I lived in NY there was a small town where a man came home and told his family that he was now "Peggy". His son, a star HS football player committed suicide. I ran into him in a grocery store one time and couldn't stop laughing. (Yes I was immature) He had on high heels and nylons and a dress and cute little purse, and stood about 6'5" with huge hands. Down here, up in Raleigh NC there is a militaria collector show several times a year. One of the dealers decided a couple years ago that he was now a female. Now he shows up in a dress, heels makeup and wigs but still sits there selling helmets, bayonets and other assorted militaria.

I have nothing against the LGBT community. I do feel they are a little heavy handed in their tactics, but overall, I say live and let live.

I'm not a religious person, but I would be opposed to the LGBT community trying to impose their will on churches. Separation of church and state works both ways: the government can't institute a "national religion", and gays shouldn't be able to force religious institutions to perform gay marriage ceremonies. It is fundamentally against their belief system (right or wrong), which makes it unconstitutional to force them to perform these ceremonies.

On to Bruce Jenner. I think he truly is a confused man who has legitimately been dealing with a confusing issue his whole life. I'm not an expert on the science behind sex and gender, but I am sympathetic to those who deal with these issues. Bruce Jenner feels like he's a woman. He's more comfortable being a woman than being a man. He had the decency to wait until all of his children were adults to finally come out with it. Could it all be for publicity? Absolutely. There's nothing I wouldn't put past that group of publicity whores. But I don't think that's the case here.

Just my two cents.