Stepped down "

According to nick the crow Caramandi- "chuckie (merlino) comes by my house, he tells me he's not angry about what happened with the break up. Because this thing of ours comes first and if Salvie would step down and start over, all would be forgotten. It didn't have to be this way"

Basically chuckie is saying he can understand them breaking up, but the fact Salvie done it at the last minute was an insult to them. Plus Salvie was seeing another girl.

Now I know many of you are going to argue Scarfo would have wanted him dead anyway, but according to Crow, Salvie was only in trouble due to Chuckie getting Tommy & Faffy to "beef about Salvie wanting to start his own family, he's dealing drugs, he's doing this doing that" which ultimately sealed his fate. "Faffy buried him"

Had Salvie stepped down, Chuckie would have saved face & Scarfo would no longer see him as a potential rival.

It's hard to say because Scarfo was such a lunatic. People hate so much and once he had something in his head about a person your pretty much done for.

Idk if it would of saved him. But for dying so young he is one of the most interesting LCN figures in my opinion

You would think that any father would be very pissed" off ,then you add Chuckie and the way he drank" and him being Sal's superior , it all just adds up to be bad for Salvie no matter what.(a lot of that talk was done when Chuckie was smashed)

And yes possibly" if he would have come to them with his tail between his legs he may of had a shot.It is all about fear and money and how the other guy looks in that life,and it did make Chuckies family look bad.

Nicky sr he most likely took it as it was his daughter, cos he had invited or had invited many LCN people from Pitt. to NY and you know in his sick mind it made him look bad.

Then you have Salvi's rackets ,as soon as it was said once that he should be taken down then thats all Tommy and Faffy and Yogi and others had to hear ,in there mind it was open season on his money,and for the skipper spot to be filled.

So you had Chucky Tommy Faffy and others looking at Sal's rackets ,down here in AC you had Yogi in Phil's and Nick's ear,and a line of guys from Philly at the office door, and it all just snowballed for Salvie to be taken out. The fact that once Nicky gave him the cold shoulder at a couple affairs or meetings and Sal did not come running to kiss Nick's ass sealed his fate right there...

So yes"(I think) if Salvie would have got Nick and Chuckie together and kissed there ass and or offered to accept the punishment it may have saved his life.

I posted about a year ago stating that I thought MAYBE Salvie could have run to NY and begged Big Paul to intervene.

In a nutshell, WHAT did Salvie do wrong to get killed? End a wedding days away?....OK, that issue could be solved IN HOUSE.....Scarfo could have solved this issue IN HOUSE by telling Salvie he is being fined $______ for the disrespect and maybe moved back to soldier.

I clearly remember another EXACT scenario that took place in philly....When Pollina wanted to whack his capo, Angelo Bruno......Bruno ran to NYC and we all know the rest.

In conclusion, I don't think Salvie would have taken Scarfo's place but I do believe it was his ONLY option at that time.

The whole thing is, according to Leonetti, Caramandi & DelGiorno, Nicky used the whole Salvie/Testa thing as an excuse, as he felt Salvie was getting too big for his britches. Salvie was obviously loyal to Scarfo, but as crazy as that man was, the whole article about Salvie being the fastest rising and most popular mob capo in Philadelphia, somewhere in Nickys clouded mind, he thought eventually Salvie would have moved against him. Its an interesting thoight, but I don't think him stepping down wouldve saved Salvie Testa.

And with all the money he was making, the rackets that he had taken over with his own manpower and those that belonged to his father, and as headstrong as he was. I don't think stepping down and giving all that up was really an option for Testa. But who knows.

I think Salvie Testa was getting a lot of attention from the media as well and that took scarfo out of the spot light. The media attention he was getting was that he was a rising star and may become boss or something to that effect..

Ah interesting points about Testa & the news articles. Because Scarfo was obsessed with being in the limelight & making headlines according to the crow, "whenever we whacked someone he would want it to make alot of noise. "

"He loved seeing his name in the papers".

Everybody shitts on Gotti for loving the cameras but I rarely hear that said about Scarfo. He loved to quaff his hair, put on his best suit & some platform shoes, smile at the cameras.

Once when turning up at court Leonetti recalled his uncle say "geez Bobby (Simone), are they (press) here for us?'

"I'm afraid so", says bobby. Truth is Nicky had a huge grin on his face.

Now, back to thread. Mickey diamond got whacked for the same thing as Testa did other than balking at the street tax. After the death of Phil Testa, the media were unaware who the new boss was and started speculating that Mickey diamond was meeting with important figures & being paid respect.

Scarfo was livid and would say "there's only one boss and that's me ".

I agree, they could have given him a few slaps...fine him like u said & strip his capo status

But since Testa was carrying on like normal thinking Scarfo had his back (which is why he waited until Scarfo was about to get out of prison) to announce the breakup, I'm flabbergasted as to how Salvie thought he was going to get away with this

U don't bed an underboss's daughter then cancel last minute.. & shack up with another girlfriend . The heck was he thinking? This wasn't no country club or high school.

And on top of that Tony ,when they did catch up with him and take him out. That's the girl he was living" with . (not just going out)

You have a good point.You don't cancel last min, and shack up with another girl. (death wish in that life)Most will not understand that ,but in there life you don't do it that way.

Nicky had to be nuts the last 2 guys who had his job before him one gets his face blown off second blown to smithereens. I'd kill anyone who looked wrong. But its fucked up he tells the father I will watch over salvie then kills him. So I watching the philly doc on Netflix the other day. Did scarfo have the whole family go to salvoes funeral. It makes it look like scarfo and crew rolled up in limos at the church.

Once the word got back that Scarfo had put a contract out on him, he had no other option but to step up and try to get Scarfo first. And according to Leonetti while Salvie was in Philly conducting business going about his life cautiously, he had a crew of guys looking for Scarfo, Merlino & Leonetti. But Scarfo being the true boss, he prevailed.

Really? I read Leonetti's book, and listened to his interviews. Never heard Salvie put together a crew to go after Scarfo

And if he did, surely it'd include his no.1 guy/ right hand man joey pung who ended up setting him up for the hit

Was just reading in another thread about the "kisd of death". Forget "word of a contract" getting back to Salvie.

At Joe Pung's aunts funeral, Chuckie gave him the kiss of death. Right then & there he knew he was a marked man

Right on the money Tony, Salvie had a third sense till that kiss, at that point he still could not believe it.And still never tried put a crew together.
He did have the good sense not to fall into a routine, to no avail ....

Yep, he stopped going to meetings or dinners & rarely ventured out, dividing his time between his 1st home & 2nd down the beach.

What gets me baffled is, he would only meet his closet friends ie joe pung & them... BUT if he knew Scarfo which he did plenty. Surely it didn't take a brain surgeon to work out Nicky loved to order those close to intended target for the dirty deed

ie when he wanted Mickey diamond clipped he got the Marconis to do it if memory serves me right. Apart from them being the only ones able to get close, it was also out of spite plus a great way to test loyalty which Scarfo loved (not saying he was loyal himself)

And how could Salvie not remember the Riccobene war, it was Scarfo who ordered frank monte to approach Harry's half brother Sonny

The writing was on the wall but Salvie was blind to it

Now way in a million years would Testa been able to put a crew together and whack Scarfo unless NY gave the ok. NY never would have, especially due to him being so damn young. The only thing that would of saved Salvie Testa is if he grew up and NY, not philly. Of course he would never of been made that young had he been around ny.
I also dont think Salvie would have been able to go to NY and talk to Castellano; i just cant imagine that ever happening. His torso would still be in staten island.

Yea Belmont : I was responding to a post above about someone saying about him putting a crew together. No way and if Nick got wind of if he was even thinking about it ,would have been like what Nick did to Harry, full on assault.

The NY thing is really far fetched also just like you said.
But I will never understand the way Salvie went about the time before he was hit, could he of just said F--K it ,or did he think that it really wold not go down.

This I know nobody came out and told him ,from what I always herd he was blind sided (but how ? )...

Serp did scarfo and guys go to salvie funeral. Also only salvie in the mob. Tons of sals.

Pmac : Good question cos I always assumed they did .

Because Nick and Mimi were Salvies god parents .(this is what I have been told through the years).

Now they all went" or Nicky bailed and went to Florida" and gave the order what to do.

Nicky was a guy that had the crews always all go to other services of guys that were hit.(he was big with that shit)

Then when they all flipped the family found out the truth that Nick ok the hit and I can only imagine what the straight people in the family thought.(we all knew)not positive but we herd things.

But this has me thinking and I will find out who was there ..

I know the service for his funeral" was the same church were he was baptized" and Nick" and Mimi" were the "god parents". (WOW) I forgot all this shit...

Now I never herd this after his murder only before of course.

It's not in Leonetti's book, I'm 100% sure it's in Blood And Honor, which is Caramandi's. I remember reading it, in which it was stated that Salvie was also gunning for Scarfo and co. once he knew he was a marked man.

And I didn't mean a literal contract or Salvie hearing about it. Basically when he knew he had got on Scarfo's bad side to the point of no return, is what I meant.

I'm positive Caramandi says Salvie was still conducting business and going out to collect his envelopes, and that other than not attending gatherings, he wasn't really hiding, and he was also working on remodeling his social club (which was never to be) and which was also the candy store he was killed at. The reason Caramandi says he was so hard to kill was because he'd pat guys down while greeting them. And he had to still be conducting business if the only way they lured him in was under the guise of discussing money owed for one of his bookmaking operations.

I've read blood & honour too, I'm positive Crow never said Salvie was gunning for them. Your slightly taking what he said out of context, what crow meant was Salvie (after the kiss of death) from
Chuckie knew he was marked. And started to really distance himself

He would only meet his crew members & would pat down everyone he came into contact with

Now, what nicky crow does say is that Salvie NEVER got confirmation there was a hit on him, because IF he did, Salvie was "not the type of guy to take off. He would have striked back. He only got vibes. "

"That was the type of guy he was. You gotta understand after what happened to his dad, he was real bitter about that. And full of venom. When we were hunting the riccobenes, sometimes we'd come back and say we couldn't get so and so because he was in a car with his family. And Salvie would say I don't care who is in the car, everybody goes (wife & kids). That was the type of guy he was".

"Once me, charlie white & faffy got info from Salvie that Sonny was going to be at a house on a Sunday afternoon. But we lied saying he didn't show because we didn't go for killing kids. "

So yes here we have it, Salvie had the mentality like them
guys in Italy, he would have whacked kids too

When I'm home I'm going to read that chapyer again, just to be sure, but that sounds about right. As far Salvie still conducting business goes, he was, Caramandi confirms that, I don't think I yook that part out of context at all. And again if he hadn't been conducting business still, I highly doubt it would've been easy to lure him in with the guise of discussing money owed to him in his bookmaking operations, which is the excuse they used. Had he not be conducting business such a ploy would've been extremely random and he would've caught on and would've never shown up. Or he would've and attempted to kill everyone in the shop.

I think Salvie's potential has been exaggerated tremendously. He was basically handed all his fathers rackets on a silver platter and had Scarfo protecting those rackets for him.
Not saying he wasnt an earner, he was , at least based on what was given to him.
As far as him assembling a crew to clip a boss backed by new york is extremely far fetched. Perhaps he told a few guys this but i doubt they would have ever been his true intentions.
Castellano NEVER would have agreed to even talk to Salvie, never mind help him out.
Also, we only know what has been written. How do we know that Carimandi and Faffy didnt poison Scarfo's ear with bullshit because they wanted Salvie's rackets? Same thing Gravano did with Gotti.
Im sure Salvie canceling his wedding hurt him but maybe that wasnt his true demise? Maybe the attention he received from the media bothered Scarfo( im the boss, not him),helped as we mentioned, or it was all just about greed.

Belmont : No doubt the guy had a good head on his shoulders and an above-average killer as far as rackets go you are dead on .

Im just speculating. I just cant imagine a guy in his 20's being significant . He was because he inherited is fathers rackets and was protected by Scarfo.
Philly had far too many young guys that were made. I believe Scarfo insulated himself by moulding young guys. Kind of like why the marines want 19 year olds to train. You guys listen and arent set in their ways yet.

True , He only had a handful of skippers he could trust after two bosses were killed in front of him . Not saying it's the best way to go but it was his way.

Mob father about tommy del and his kids is probaly the best of all scarfo books just under the radar. He says sindone had the capo votes over testa for boss havnt read it in years gonna try the librayy.

Why wouldn't that ever happen in New York? Sure, it's probably true percentage wise that Scarfo inducted more guys in their 20's and 30's than what usually happens in NY. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Barney Bellomo was only 20 when he was inducted into the most highly regarded family in the whole American mafia.

And why wouldn't Castellano sit down with Salvie Testa? Salvie was well respected and considered 100% LCN to the core, and his father was also well respected before that. Danny Greene had a sit down with Big Paul AND Fat Tony Salerno while he was at war with Cleveland. If an Irish associate (if that's what you wanna call him) can get a meeting with the two most powerful godfathers in the country while he's at war with another LCN family, why wouldn't a well respected captain from Philly be able to sit with Paul?

Why wouldnt Castellano sit down with Salvie Testa? Do i even need to say why..serious. NY would of demanded a guy high up in Philly to first contact someone with clout, maybe a capo with the Gambino 's first.
What was Salvie gonna do, knock on Castellano's front door and ask Castellano if he would back him and some other 25 year old guys to take over Philly.
Im sure the FBI bug in Castellano's home would of had a lot of agents laughing at that one.

Where did I say that he was going to show up at his house/knock on his front door and ask for a meeting? I know how the protocol works and that he would have to go through the proper channels.

Like I said, if Greene got a meeting with Castellano and Salerno, why couldn't Salvie? Danny Greene and Nardi, two fucking bums from Cleveland, would know someone as a go-between to get that meeting, but Testa wouldn't? Maybe he wouldn't have had a connection to get him that meeting, neither one of us would know that for sure. But you act like Big Paul was so above Salvie that HE WOULD NEVER sit down with him - and the Greene/Nardi meeting proves that false.

And where did I ever say Testa was going to ask him to back him in taking over Philly?