As I've said many times, it's NEVER been about "tolerance" with the gay agenda and their liberal supporters. It's always been about acceptance and celebration.

And to say that it's all in a kid's DNA from the time they are born is rather simplistic and a thinly veiled effort to remove all responsibility and accountability for one's actions. The truth is, gay people fall somewhere on a long spectrum of "nature vs nurture" causes.

In answer to XDCX's post, I'm talking about what should be encouraged by our society on a general level. Stable marriages between a man and a woman should be the ideal and we should not kid ourselves (simply for political correctness sake) that
"gay marriages" or "gay parenting" is in anyway equal or even desirable. It's not. To argue otherwise someone has to be utterly morally bankrupt and have zero common sense.

It's difficult to generalize like that Ivy. There are those in the gay community that simply want to be treated equally under the law and be able to marry and have a job without being fired. That's reasonable enough.

On the other hand there is the contingent of people who essentially do as you and many others have feared, forcing it down people's throats, going after people who don't believe what they believe, going after churches, etc. I don't believe being homosexual to be a deviant lifestyle, and I personally don't think it's a choice. Let them do what they want.

But tolerance is a two way street. They must understand and accept that not everyone accept it as normal or mainstream. It's just the way it is. And you won't change anyone's mind by yelling and cursing at them and calling them bigots. At that point all you can do is disagree and walk away.

I wish both the Christian right and the gay agenda and their supporters would do so. But it will not happen with so many people feeling so strongly about this.

Which group is the majority? The ones that want to be seen as equals or the ones that are angry and push their agenda without apology? I'd like to think the former. Remember, often times the loudest people may seem like the majority, but they're actually not.

I like how the talking points flipped.

Being gay is just hard reality coded at birth.

Gender however is fluid, can be changed at any time, is a socially-constructed "choice". And if you even suggest gender/sex is hard coded reality- then you are bigot, not respecting choices, etc.

The "born this way" thing is going to flip here soon- in fact it already has with discussion of spectrum and being anything but bisexual/willing to try new things is evidence of probably being a closed-minded bigot. Dan Savage and the rest of gay intellectual vanguard had said this for years. And again, he was also intellectual honest to say it was about smashing institutions and not just transitioning them to a new group. Most of the academic literature also overtly admitted this- saying the traditional family was a evil, socially unjust structure that must be overhauled. Ryan T. Anderson provides a list of such citations in his book.

The "same marriage, different people" stuff is a talking point for stupid people. Who could honestly believe that a group that has infidelity rates north of 50% wants the same stable, monogamous institutions as straight people. No change at all. Well get ready for the polyamory, multi-party marriages and the permanence, exclusivity, and monogamy standards to crumble. Enjoy.

That gender fluidity stuff is bullshit. It's absolute crap with no scientific evidence to back it up.

Oh I agree, bro. I don't know why the gays would want to associate themselves with the mentally ill.

I think its probably a mix of both. Some are born that way, a few are either are trauma survivors (what you describe above is really that), somewhere on a spectrum.

With lesbians however, my anecdotal experience is a good percentage experienced childhood trauma at the hands of a really bad guy. Whether they would have become that way anyway, I don't know. But it seems like the sexual trauma likely impacted their development.

Often times they aren't mentally ill, just confused as all hell.

I knew couple kids in my old high school that dabbled in that. This girl a few years younger than me was already sort of weird, and then she wanted to go by a different name, a boy's name if you will, but never made up her damn mind. One day 'it' was a girl the next a boy. She had a drunk for a mother and a father with health problems so that might have had something to do with it.

Point is you can't just 'feel' that you're something and then next day backtrack on it. It's pure attention seeking.

Ivy, your comments are based on a skewed, religious belief..they hold as much weight as somebody believing they are a Jedi Knight, so understand why people, in this instance, gay people, might be doubley offended by your comments. Your obviously an intellegent guy, but I'm always slightly dissappointed with your posts outside of OC, they have to be taken with a huge pinch of salt

And just remember, we ALL fall somewhere in between that nature/nurture spectrum..including you and whatevever story you hold as a belief

How is the divorce rate among gays? Same as straight or more?

The divorce rate among straight is pretty high. Among my own kids it pretty high. Every few years one of them is getting divorced. my oldest three times, next oldest twice, next is once.

My youngest son has never been married, but that will change next year.

Me once was the charm.

Here is my view on gays. They leave me alone I will leave them alone.

I couldn't care less if gay people or anyone else is offended. The truth is the truth, whether it's politically correct or not. But hey, don't take my word for it. Go read the two Matt Walsh articles in the " after gay marriage thread - going after churches" thread. You won't be able to argue with any of it.

The Matt Walsh articles are interesting, but it's all doom and gloom when that's really not the case.

It's good you're not worried about offending anyone, I applaud that. People these days are too quick to be offended by a simple opinion usually because it's not politically correct.

But the social climate has changed in this country. Just be wary of those people who would seek to silence or worse dox you just because you have a dissenting belief about gay marriage and gay parenting.

I believe the mother and father family unit to be the cornerstone of our social fabric, but I don't think gay parents should be excluded either. They should be able to raise families same as straight people.

What makes you think straight parents all know how to raise kids? Pretty sure not all gay parents know how to raise kids either.

Those kids would be far better off raised in orphanages. To bad they don't have them anymore.

Excellent insight. It just shows the phoniness and hypocrisy of the "GLBT" supporting left. They only care about science when it suits their social agenda. When it doesn't, science goes out the window real fast.

Yea, I wish that was possible. Because I totally agree. But here we all are now discussing churches losing tax exempt status and businesses facing multimillion dollar fines for not participating, using their art (whether baking or photography), in a gay ceremony.

To simply call the articles "all doom and gloom" is a ridiculous oversimplification designed to not have to acknowledge the solid case he makes against gay marriage because you have nothing to come back with. It's why all those angry liberals could do nothing more than throw out personal insults at Walsh. And our society should not be encouraging gay-raised families or even saying its ok. It's not fair to a child who deserves to be raised by a mother and father, as well as taught correct values and morals. A gay couple provides neither.

My YouTube video was interrupted today with an ad from Tylenol telling me that I should celebrate all TYPES of families. Have you seen it yet? It's called "How we family".

I was disgusted.


http://youtu.be/k17dw16fuZg