I remember a thread at some stage previously about Joey doves, sure someone said he had a bad temper.

Was he well respected though, was Joe batters just pulling the strings ?

yeah he was a boxer and gunman in 1930s he must had respect he was the boss in 1970s and early 1980s but some say Jackie Cerone was the real boss Joe Batters always pulled the strings no matter who was the day to day boss

He was respected as boss but not much before that. Most of the big shots died or went to prison during the early 70's so he was the only choice and was also backed up by Accardo and Alex.And even with all of the enormous heat he remained as boss for quite long period

I think it was also aiuppa who brought the traditional making ceremony bak to the Chicago outfit

I read that, sure he was also big friends with fat Tony

Page 135 in "The mafia court, corruption in Chicago", by Hughes:

"many of us feared him (Aiuppa). He had a flag in his yard and when the flag was at half-mast, the crew knew that it was time for a meeting"

Interesting note is that he was connected to the Dillinger gang back in the 30s.

Aiuppa disliked the Taylor Street guys. There was always a big rivalry between Cicero/Melrose Park and Taylor Street. Aiuppa essentially deactivated the Taylor Street crew and formed Grand Avenue under Lombardo and 26th Street under LaPietra. The Taylor street guys were reassigned, or in some cases, killed (Johnny Roselli and Chucky Nicoletti), or simply shelved (Chuckie English).

You are right about Aiuppa's actions but i dont think that he personally hated the West Side crew. Joey had a good relationship with Nicoletti and Battaglia for example. Joey acted on the instructions given by Accardo.Tony had a lot of bad experience with the Taylor St crew over the years, especially with Giancana

Taylor Street was the powerhouse crew from the 1940s until 1975. They literally controlled Chicago. They, as a standalone entity, were probably more powerful than the rest of the Outfit combined. They also controlled the political machine and the Connection guys. At some point, the Connection guys (Humphries, Alex, Patrick, Larner) were reassigned to the Rush Street crew.

At that time, Taylor Street controlled not only their Chicago territory, but had guys in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Diego, Arizona and Florida.

I think the Taylor Street/Cicero rivalry is an old ANP wives' tale that's kind of taken on a grotesque life of its own. Hell, I used to buy into it myself before I did more extensive research.

As a crew, Taylor Street was split up long before '75. Battaglia, Buccieri, and Alderisio, all Giancana's "guys" operated in widely varying geographic territories as opposed to one fluid , cohesive crew. Battaglia was in the western suburbs, Buccieri in north Cicero and the lower west side, and Alderisio was in what eventually became the Grand Avenure crew's territory, extending somewhat into the Loop and the near North Side.

Ricca, Accardo, and Giancana together did everything you described in the first paragraph; it wasn't Taylor Street doing all of the work.

They were clearly the dominant crew and their reach extended everywhere. They ran all the franchises, all the business. The other Outfit crews either carved out little niches in Lake County and McHenry County, or had no choice but to operate under Taylor Street. I do think there was a rivalry, maybe not an all out war, but there was certainly a reason why Aiuppa and Cerone dismantled the entire crew. Their rackets were redistributed. Marshall Caifano was essentially shelved, same with Chuckie English.

Snakes is right,the Taylor St crew wasnt the only group that made most of the cash. The Taylor St crew had a 10 year golden period, from the mid 50's until the mid 60's. Before them, the Cicero crew(Campagna,Maddox,Ralph Capone,Heeney) and the North Side crew(Prio,Allegretti) which later became known as the Rush St crew, did most of the heavy work and brought much of the finances into the organization. Also Sam "Golf bag" Hunt from the south side was one of the first guys that brought the numbers game under the auspices of the Outfit. During the era of Giancana the Rush Street crew continued to be the one of the leading groups.But i have to admit that the Taylor St boys were the most notable ones during their prime time.

Accardo dismantled the crew because they became too much of an obstacle and brought too much heat, not because they were the prime crew or controlled everything

I have to agree there was no war or friction between Taylor St and the Cicero from everything I've read on the Outfit. I've never seen anything about it from the FBI files or informants. Giancana came back to Chicago and was dispatched for several reasons. His guys that didn't like what was going on or were too high profile were also dispatched. Their era was over.

When Torello took over the Buccieri crew it was a much smaller crew that it was before because it was decimated by successful prosecutions that put a large number of its men in prison all at once. https://books.google.com/books?id=sj2tBA...one&f=false

Doves got promoted to boss because thier was no one else...all braun but no brains but he was one helluva earner

He was the front for smarter Outfit guys like Accardo and Alex. They needed someone to lay down the law and he did it. I don't know if he was respected, but he was certainly feared. Plenty of bodies hit the floor from 1970-1985.

Aiuppa was no front. Accardo was in Palm Springs and Alex was in Miami most of the time so Aiuppa ran things with little interference.

I think one of the biggest myths of the Outfit was that Joey O was a Joe B puppet. In his heyday, I don't think he took orders from anyone.

I'm sure if Accardo wanted something done it got done but how much could he have really wanted? The guy was a millionaire and living in a different state for half of the year. Hell, Cerone was practically acting for Aiuppa himself right before the Strawman case broke.

Really good point. What would Accardo want, other than better health, that he didn't have? I've talked to numerous people about this and they all say he was was semi-retired, but still involved to some degree. Most said he and Aiuppa were pretty tight. They both had residences in Palm Springs, but Accardo was practically living there until his health deteriorated to the point that he needed assistance. My guess is that Accardo and Aiuppa conferred on Outfit business and probably agreed on a course of action or, Aiuppa went ahead with whatever he wanted to do. Why would Accardo care what he did? I don't believe there's a policy or procedure for a graceful exit out of the Outfit; you just gradually retreat and let someone else take over. It appears J. DiFronzo made a similar exit. Just my two cents.

Jackie Cerone was Accardo Spy And mouth pierce he pulled Aiuppa Strings when Ask

Accardo pulled the strings by the end of the 1970's.According to FBI reports during the mid 70's Aiuppa wanted to get in the narcotics business together with Nicoletti but Accardo and Alex said no and Aiuppa respected the restriction.Thats only one example, so the point was that Accardo played a big part in dismantling the old Taylor Street crew and Aiuppa was his chief executioner. And thats is not a "myth". Also no way Aiuppa was going to give the order to kill Giancana without the ok from Accardo, no way. Accardo even pulled the strings on Gus Alex because he was the one that brought him back to Chicago because Alex wasnt devoting much of his time as a part of the ruling panel. After 70's the old man was retired and acted only as an advisor from time to time and nothing more. But the thing was that his advice was still taken very seriously.It wasnt about how much cash he had stashed, hell Accardo was already a multi-millionare back in the 1950's.The thing is Accardo was a gangster till the end of his life.

Also during the 1980's Gus Alex was still pretty much active. He was still on the ruling panel, regulary took tributes from Lenny Patrick and his crew and was also involved in a murder plot.

Well Said Toodoped when your next topic make sure u fit Alex Brothers in one of them bro

Will do ricky

Lot of myths surrounding a few of them Outfit fellas: Cerone, Aiuppa and Frank Nitti have all been described as "front guys" and lackeys. I seriously belive all of them were capable in their own right. Clearly Accardo was the man until his death but these guys were never any puppys,

One thing I find hard to understand though is how Joe B could put Alderisio in the top position which he held for 2 years before he was shipped off to prison. This guy always striked me as an ordinary psycopath/street thug , but cleary Joe B saw some other qualities in him.

Alderisio was never the boss. It went Giancana-Battaglia-Accardo-Aiuppa. Accardo briefly resumed full-time leadership after Battaglia went to prison. Once things settled down and Aiuppa had taken control of things ('73 or '74), he stepped back and started spending more and more of his time in Palm Springs.

He was never in charge? Ok, then Bill Roemer was wrong. He claims Alderisio was the top guy after Battaglia.

"Philly Alderisio turned out to be a half way decent boss, though not for long did he hold the title". Page 260, Accardo The Genuine Godfather.

But it makes more sense he never held the top position.

I think Roemer stated that in error. He also believed that Ferriola was boss when it was actually Carlisi.

survailence photos from the family secrets case cleared up the ferriola/carlisi mystery

Marcello called ferriola/infelise to meet the "doctor" who was carlisi

Jerry Scarpelli, Lenny Patrick and Mario Rainone also confirmed that Ferriola wasn't a boss.

As for Alderisio, so far the evidence I've seen does indicate that he was briefly the Outfit boss (at least the acting boss under Ricca and Accardo's supervision), and Jackie Cerone was briefly a boss too. After Alderisio went to prison Aiuppa became the acting boss for a couple years, with Accardo and Alex (Ricca soon died in 1972), until Cerone came out of prison and said he didn't want to be a boss but preferred to be the underboss. Aiuppa was then made full boss, Cerone the underboss, and Accardo and Alex stayed on as advisers. By 1986, Accardo totally retired from the Outfit and Aiuppa became the top boss/consigliere and Carlisi was made the day-to-day boss and DiFronzo the underboss (Cerone was an elder statesman/adviser/underboss emeritus/whatever). It was Aiuppa who gave the order to kill Spilotro. When Carlisi went to prison and both Aiuppa and Cerone had died, DiFronzo became the consigliere and Johnny Apes became the boss while also running the Chinatown crew.