Here's a picture of 309 W 43rd St I took a couple years ago. I've always wondered who lives there now, and whether they realize their famous address...

JG

Way cool picture, Geoff!!

I know that Mario Puzo spent some of his early life in Hell's Kitchen (the neighborhood in which that address is), and I wonder if that address had any significance to him.

If any of you out of towners plan a New York visit, this building is only two blocks west of Times Square.

That's really cool info, guys. I've always been fascinated with the different neighborhoods of NYC. Can you guys recommend a good website that contains information on all the neighborhoods of NYC (Hell's Kitchen, Little Italy, Jamaica Queens, etc.)? Thanks.

If any one is coming to NYC and wish to visit some great neighborhoods. Do not forget to come and visit the largest Italian-American community over here in Bensonhurst Brooklyn. Nothing is greater then Bensonhurst on a warm summer night!!!

Here's a good starting point for general information:

New York City Neighborhoods Info

This is a very generalized reference. I'd suggest you search for individual neighborhoods separately.

I may be wrong, but wasn't "Hells Kitchen" on the Lower East Side....perhaps in the Bowery area? West 43rd wouldn't be in tha same place would it?

PS...Aren't Hell's Kitchen and Five Points almost the same area?

Hell's Kitchen is on Manhattan's midtown west side.

No, the "Five Points" section was in the lower East Side.

Hell's Kitchen encompasses New York City's West Side between 14th and 52nd Streets, and Eighth Avenue and the waterfront. [see HellsKitchen.Net ]

In The Godfather Papers and Other Confessions Puzo writes that his family "grew up together on 10th Ave, between 13th and 31st Streets, part of the area called Hell's Kitchen... in the heart of New York's Neapolitan ghetto. Beneath [their] windows were the vast black iron gardens of the New York Central Railroad."

JG

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: J Geoff ]

Thanks JG...that clears it up for me...The quote was fantastic. So Mario grew up near Penn Station and the Fulton Fish Market is very enlightening.

Don Tissinno -

I'm curious....have you ever been to New York City?

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: SC ]

Only a few of times, excuse any factual errors as "just knowing enough to be dangerous". See my post "Great Neighborhoods" for my visit to Little Italy.

SC: Also enjoyed another trip very much when I spent some time on LI. I stayed in Massapequa. I went to Jones Beach, drove through Hempstead where I have some family roots and drove into the city. I enjoyed the drive on the parkway, driving past the big cemetary just east of the river and visiting Bensonhurst. Another trip was spent strictly "Midtown"...up around 53rd (but I had to drive up 8th from the tunnel and past the Port Authority....the site of Penn Station, right?)

Penn Station is actually about 7-8 blocks south of Port Authority, but it's the general vicinity

Penn Station is the train station; Port Authority (where I spent 3 lovely years commuting to) is the bus station.

309 W 43rd St is a block from Port Authority.

JG

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: J Geoff ]

Penn Station is down on 33rd Street, and assuming you were driving west (exiting the Midtown Tunnel) you probably didn't pass that, but you may have passed the Port Authority. When you were on 8th Avenue, you were on the edge of "Hell's Kitchen". If you were at 53rd St. and 8th Avenue, you were only two blocks away from the real-life "Soup Nazi" (a character from the tv show "Seinfeld").

Not sure I remember which tunnel...I did come in from Pennsylvania on I80 so it was probably Lincoln Tunnel. I was off Broadway at 53rd...didn't realize I was so close to the Soup Nazi!!

As a child I had an uncle that lived in Moorestown NJ (site of the first multi level shopping mall, i think). We visited them twice and went into NYC both times...once we took a train, the other a trailways bus...so I know we were entering through the Port Authority at least once. What year did they close Penn Station? Where did/do trains from the south go since then? Thought it was the Port Authority too but I might be way off base. I did take the train from Cleveland to NYC once (the trip I went to Little Italy) and enjoyed the ride in from the north through the Bronx and Harlem (although a lot of it was underground, the part of the tracks that were elevated was interesting...and Grand Central was nice to see from the vantage point of being a rail passenger.

You were coming from the west (I just assumed you were driving in from the Island), so depending on which exit you took from the tunnel, you may have passed Penn Station.

Most of the exits from the Lincoln Tunnel are in the "heart" of Hell's Kitchen.

BTW - There's a really good movie ("Sleepers") about four guys who grew up in Hell's Kitchen (and some real life filming there). Robert DeNiro has a part in it, playing a priest, and Bruno Kirby (young Clemenza) has a small role as one of the kid's father. I'd recommend this movie to everyone!

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: SC ]

When I went to Jones Beach I wished I would have visited Long Beach too. I just realized it was where the family was headquartered.

I've seen this film a couple of times, a friend had the video. I cant believe I missed 'young Clemenza' I'm going to have to get sharper than this
Your right too SC it's a really good film

FH

Maybe it was Hell's Kitchen then, but today the area between 14th and 34th Street west of 6th Avenue is considered "Chelsea". It's a very gentrified, primarily gay residential area.

The West 30's through the 50's is still known as Hell's Kitchen (some yuppies call it "Clinton" now).

Damn I wish I could visit NY, Ive never had the chance to go yet .

That neighborhood (Hell's Kitchen) was famous for the "Westies", an Irish gang that sometimes took contracts for the Mob. Can anyone remember the Sean Penn movie about those guys? Let me tell you those Westies were CRAZY, and "cared not for life nor limb!!!"

"Clinton" was actually an old name for "Hell's Kitchen" that came back. Like Puzo's childhood neighborhood, this was Young Vito's stomping ground in the book, but FFC changed it to Little Italy in the film.

http://hellskitchen.net/develop/news/jf040995.html

While there's general agreement about the community's rebound, there's less accord about what to call the area. That's because its original name, Clinton, is now used interchangeably with Hell's Kitchen.
Real estate brokers say there are subtle distinctions between the names. "If it's a rental, you use Hell's Kitchen," said Patrick Lilly, who owns a real estate brokerage bearing his name. "If it's a sale you use Clinton."

(The district is named for George Clinton, the first New York Governor, who owned a vast tract in the area in the early 1800's. Local legend has it that its sobriquet comes from a policeman's remark on a blazing day in 1881 that it was "hot as hell's kitchen.")

"Clinton" is between the river and 8th Ave, from 42nd to 59 Sts... Hell's Kitchen is the same, but actually goes down into the 30's from 59th St...

"Hell's Kitchen, also known these days as Clinton, was filled with slaughterhouses, breweries, factories and persons of ill-repute in the 19th and 20th centuries; thousands died in the violent draft riots of the Civil War (1863). The neighborhood has since improved greatly and contains many residences, galleries and businesses."

But yeah, basically the same thing...

(from Virtual New York cuz I was curious myself )

JG

About 10 years ago I saw an exhibit in the NY Library on 42nd and 5th Ave. It was entitled, "The History of Garbage in New York." One thing that I still remember was a map showing the Hell's Kitchen area (mostly the 40's from 8th Ave to the Hudson River), as being all slaughterhouses and tanneries. The time period was the late 1800's. The signifigance of this was the putrid smell from this area and the animal waste that was produced. I figured that contributed to the name Hell's Kitchen. Imagine living near there? When we were kids, going past the Secaucus pig farms was bad. Living by slaughterhouses and tanneries had to be unbearable.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MaryCas:
When we were kids, going past the Secaucus pig farms was bad. Living by slaughterhouses and tanneries had to be unbearable.

Watch it, MaryCas--I live in Secaucus. The pig farms are long gone.

Now P, you live in Secaucus or NYC? I said I was a kid.....we use to take Paterson Plank Rd from Rt 3 to Tonnelle Ave to see my Gram and Gramp in Joisey City....My Aunt and cousin still lives in Secaucus and now it just smells like Jersey. Yes the farms are long gone. Hey Jgeoff, did you think this thread would go in this direction...from a picture of Hell's Kitchen?