Exactly, it is "assumed" that it is harder to run a bigger city...not altogether true if you have trustworthy Capos and territory bosses that run a tight ship in their respected territories.

Pittsburgh and Cleveland had over 65 members and over 750 associates, Buffalo & Detroit were bigger than that and SF, San Jose and Dallas were smaller...but still relevant in a big way.

Doesn't matter who was first or second. Accardo was in the top 3 in a major family for 50 years. Do you really think the feds weren't after him because he was two instead of one? He made it through the 80's when all the other bosses went to prison on RICO.

That's fine & dandy. Your initial argument was that he was the undisputed #1 for longer than anyone. He wasn't. Seriously, the sole reason anyone thinks that guy was some type of end all be all final boss overlord was because of those moronic Bill roemer books, a guy that Accardo had a seriously, seriously shady butt buddy relationship with.

Also, he was not active for the 80s, nor for the majority of the 70s. The guy gave up his Elmwood Park street rackets to Cerone & retired in the mid-70s. By the mid 80s, he was a geriatric living full time in SoCal.

He wasn't indicted in straw man because he wasn't involved in it.

EXCATLY!!! He was either feeding the government the people under him or his importance is over inflated. Really convenient that it seemed like the just happen to stop there. From the forties on. That is the one constant in Chicago.

Thats true that the feds were after Accardo and no one said that Accardo wasnt a powerful boss.The thing is there were other more powerful bosses like Ricca,for example.When Ricca went to jail,Tony busted his ass off to get him out.Even bosses like Costello and Owney Madden helped in getting Ricca out.So what does that tell you?

And many people say that Accardo stepped down because he was smart...thats not true.He stepped down because Ricca said so.Tony brought a lot of heat with his big ass house and the screw up with the horse meat business.Also one day some1 took a shot at Accardo...maybe it was an warning shot or maybe not..who knows?!

Accardo was a force to be reckoned with in all of OC history, active or not active, his advice was sought after and more importantly...valued by other major players in OC.

DRY SNITCH

I'm very interested in your theory...but without concrete proof, there isn't a leg to stand on.

What proof do have that that is advice was "sought after & more importantly valued"? Roemer's love note of a book to him??? That fact that he was willing to take a midnight meeting with an FBI agent not really fully knowing the agenda of the agent or the meeting speaks volumes.

To be honest,the only theory is that fake agent Roemer loved Accardo and said that all of the FBi respected Tony.Why's that?Because of the "Family Pact"?!You belive that?

Roemer despised Giancana.Can you tell me difference between Mooney and Tony?Both were flamboyant and both were big shots in the Outfit.Accardo maybe killed more people than Mooney.

On 27 March 1952 Accardo was wanted for questioning by the special Cook county grand jury that was investigating the horse meat racket and was never convicted.Bodies started to show up and he was never questioned about it.Can you tell me why?

Also if you follow history,most of the Taylor street guys were under big pressure during the late 50's and mid 60's.When Ricca died,most of the crew went to jail and Accardo ordered the murders of some the Taylor Street members and took over Ricca's crew.He placed his own men(Aiuppa and Cerone).Now he was the Outfits one and only elder statesman.That sounds suspicious to me and its something to think about.Im not sayin that he was a dry snitch but theres really somethin suspicious about the whole situation...its all about the cash remember?

The sole proof his "supporters" have is that Tony Spilotro allegedly sought his advice because of his close vicinity to Palm springs Where accardo resided during the late 70s/early 80s, and that Accardo allegedly recommended Ferriola to be promoted to #1 once Aiuppa got sent away. Spilotro ended up getting killed and Ferriola was never promoted to boss. Carlisi was. So There ya go.

Through reports with many other high ranking crime figures as well as federal law enforcement, it has been widely understood that the Big Tuna's decisions and advice was widely respected. I'm not saying he wasn't an FBI source of information, and it wouldn't surprise me, but it is mere speculation that he was in fact a dry snitch. I never in a million years would have thought that Jackie Presser was a dry snitch...but he was. While Accardo's house was certainly flamboyant, he was vastly different from Momo as Momo chased Hollywood celebrity types and was out on the scene and more visible than Accardo ever was. Phyllis MaGuire, Angie Dickinson and whoever else. If you're judging his flamboyance over his house, guys like Castellano, Salerno, Frank Balistrieri, Junior Gotti, Santo Traficante etc have to be included in that discussion. Also, keep in mind that many other mobsters have taken meetings with agents...maybe he wanted to know what the agents knew, maybe he wanted to feel the agent out to see if there were pending indictments, maybe he wanted to see if any of his men were compromised...that's actually not that unordinary for a respected mafioso to sit down and hear what an agent is pitching.

This topic has turned into Accardo being an informer, maybe the topic should be another thread.

Nicely said

Just a different opinion that you have, your "evidence" is shaky at best that his opinion was widely valued.

Where did I ever claim he was number one? The post is about the greatest Italian American gangster, not mafia boss.

He must have been active for the 70's if the burglars who broke into his house all ended up dead. A retired gangster wouldn't have that kind of pull. Why was he tried in the 1982 labor racketeering trial?

How about the wiretap of Accardo telling Momo to tone it down?

When Momo kept up the flashy lifestyle, he was run out of town then came back to get whacked. That was Ricca's boy.

Accardo was barely active, they had no reason to whack him. He didn't whack anyone who robbed his house, the Outfit had those guys whacked because he was Tony fckin Accardo & an elder statesman.

Giancana got whacked because he'd have rather died than take orders from Jackie the lackey cerone lol.

"Shaky at best?" I would be willing to bet my home that the Justice Department knows more than you do my friend. If you are seriously stating that Tony Accardo was not a force in Chicago, then most of the true followers of organized crime and historians are full of shit or just plain crazy. Maybe you should request under FOIPA FBI reports on the major Chicago players as well as the file on Fat Tony Salerno, as the FBI traced many calls to the Palma Boys Social Club from Tony Accardo. Accardo being a snitch is almost unheard of and you are offering no concrete evidence such as a 302 or witness testimony in front of a grand jury that supports your theory. I really don't want to argue with you, but facts are facts and we need to stick to them in order to pass accurate judgement.

YOU are offering no concrete evidence that his advice was widely valued by anyone. Since you want to reference FBI reports, you will know then that sources are black out and redacted in reports. Facts are facts, what FACTS do YOU have that is advice was widely valued??? What I was stating was that if Accardo was so active and widely sought out for counsel it seems like he would have been implicated in some type of conspiracy charge. Seems like over and over again people were indicted right up to him. So he either wasn't that active or protected by some one. I never said he wasn't a force or that I know more than the FBI, I just don't believe he was a super criminal mastermind.

There was this nice thread about bosses snitching on their underlings....again im off topic but thats a fact and reality!

I don't believe he was a mastermind either, but reports from other high ranking mafioso "suggest" that he was in deed widely respected and was considered a voice of reason within the Commission. When FBI spokespeople call him a powerhouse in OC, then it appears that he certainly was high on their radar. I'm not a Chicago fanboy, but I do pay attention to detail and to how other men from around the country viewed him. Very much like Russell Bufalino, Tony Accardo was an elder statesman and according to FBI personnel and other guys like Salerno and Gambino, they looked at him as an equal.

And as long as you submit a list of deceased individuals whose names will appear in his FBI reports, the redactions are "minimal." You could appeal the report that is released, which I have done on 19 occasions regarding individuals that myself and my team were interested in.

giancana got himself killed, his close friends killed, and his crew dismantled

No one is saying Accardo wasn't a powerful & influential gangster. The guy practically built the Elmwood Park Crime Family with the help of a few other fellas.

His power is just greatly overstated. Especially on website like these, chock full of fanboys who Have watched YouTube documentaries on the guy ad nauseum.

Sam Giancana got killed because he refused to take orders from a bunch of do gooder yes men.

sam giancana got killed because he thought he was bigger than life

weren't accardo, cerone, lombardo, spilotro directly linked through elmwood/grand ave

that's a lot of responsibilty and money from one crew

Agreed

In many ways Mooney was bigger than life. Gotti, casso, basciano, all those guys were trying to replicate Mooney. He embodied the American mafioso. He just wasn't on board with where the Outfit was going so They killed him because they knew it would only be a matter of time before he assembled a small army & waged war on their operation. Can You imagine someone like Sam giancana taking orders from a miserable troll like Jackie cerone? No way no how.

According to Chuck G. Mooneys greatest "idols" were Luciano and Costello...so what do you expect?!

To get back on topic, I don't understand why most posters do not consider the longtime bosses of smaller families to be as influential or powerful. Many of them wielded quite a bit of power not just in their local area, but throughout the states and in some cases, their power went beyond the state government. Food for thought.

I dont know whats whit you and all these small fimilies?!What you wanna talk about Dallas?Ok than...theres only Carlos Mracello,yes he was big and that was that.You wanna talk about Tampa?Santo Trafficante and thats it.IN Chicago you have many bosses more powerful than thouse two,not to mention NY.Also the population in thouse two cities is bigger than Dallas or Tampa for example.The NY italian mob together with jewish mobsters like Lansky had connections worldwide.The Chi mob during Giancanas reign had also connections world wide.Ever heard of Hy Larner?Yes the the smaller families were also very powerful but they all answered to the big ones.They all had their own DIFFERENT shares.I laught at the people who belive that TRafficante was involved in Giancanas or Rosellis murder.LOL Santo couldnt even get in Chicago with out ttheir approval.Some1 also once said the Bufalino was the top mob boss in the country...i mean common.lol

Again yes they were powerful but not as the powerful as the big families.Thats why we use the word "BIG".IF you wanna make them more powerful than the allegedly big ones,than you cannot convince me buddy...dunno about the rest of the posters