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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: IvyLeague]
#862611
10/06/15 12:36 PM
10/06/15 12:36 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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I'll ask again, did these numbers include the Montreal crew? It's stated in either the Sixth Family or Mafia Inc. (probably both) that the Bonannos had 150 members including Montreal in the early 80s. I'm not sure what sources were used for these figures and perhaps these were simply based on the 15 capos they had at the time (a capo originally being in charge of ten soldiers). I'll also have to add to my previous statement that another guy with Sciacca said the Bonannos had 100 members after which Sciacca said 180. Sciacca was the current acting boss at the time.
I'm fairly conservative when it comes to total numbers for the families and think that they may have always had pretty much the same numbers. A number cap of 300 for the Genoveses and Gambinos and 150 for the three smaller families sounds believable to me. Yet the 180 members statement by Sciacca doesn't sound like being pulled out of thin air. Also I find it quite odd that according to D'Arco the Colombos were allowed to have more members than the Luchesses and Bonanno. Like I said before, 180 members in the 1950s and 1960's is believable if you go with the higher end estimates. 150 in the early 1980s seems high for that time period. You'll notice that the figures I posted above were after the death of Sciascia when the Rizzutos were said to have broken off from the Bonannos. But even if that break never actually happened, or even if we do not include the Montreal crew in the figures above but add them now, it still doesn't come to 150. If the Bonannos had 180 members in 1965 then 150 in the early 80s correspond pretty well, especially because new members were made after 1975. You also have to take it into context; 130 members in New York and 20 in Montreal. That does sound believable does it not?
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#862841
10/09/15 08:07 AM
10/09/15 08:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815
Larry's Bar
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CabriniGreen, New Orleans crime family is unique as well as the city. If you dig around New Orleans records and residents from the 1904 to 1930 records, you will find many well known members of other crime families had passed through there and one out of eight of them had stayed in the city for a number of years before moving to other cities in the states, and one out of five those were know as Men of Honor while living in the city. New Orleans was a huge port of entry for them, so you will see hundreds of names, especially during the time of Bendito. The west coast had a bunch of people from New Orleans. All five of the New York families had members from New Orleans that were known as Men of Honor while living in New Orleans, Brooklyn and the Bronx had the most concentration of those members, and three New York families that had a lot them were the Bonanno, Mangano, and Profaci families. Gagliano had Silver Dollar nephew in his family. Like I said New Orleans is unique.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: cookcounty]
#862914
10/09/15 07:23 PM
10/09/15 07:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,516
gangstereport
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,516
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i doubt the 5 families are the size as reported
unless they're just making people for the sake of having numbers the five familys have a massive recruitment pool i can name tons of young guys getting there button not like chicago or detrot were they are struggling for young guys. guys 30s and 40s running crews not like chicago or detroit as FBI agent jack falcone said in his book when he went undercover in the gambino family he is going to know alot more than you about the size of the mob as he was in the mob for 2 years undercover"for every capo they take down a soldier steps up for every soldier a associate steps up every associate a wannabe steps up" five familys are doing the best since the 90s
Not connected with scott or anyone at gangsterreport
Sorry for the confusion
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#863590
10/16/15 02:32 PM
10/16/15 02:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
dinocrocetti
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
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Pittsburgh's heyday was after 1937 when Frank Amato Sr took over. By 1946, state police and local law enforcement had Pittsburgh between 45-55. Pittsburgh has always operated very similar to a Camorra where they assigned bosses to each area. High ranking associates were held in very high regard and some of them were actually better earners than some made guys. By 1950, Pittsburgh had these guys assigned to their respected territories:
Frank Amato- Braddock, East McKeesport John LaRocca- Pittsburgh (city limits) Kelly & Sam Mannarino- New Kensington Tony Ripepi- Fayette & Washington Counties Mike Genovese- East Liberty, Bloomfield Ave Joe Regino- Altoona/Johnstown Joe Pecora- Penn Hills-then moved to Chester, WV along Rte 30 Charlie Imburgia- Warren, OH (Trumbull County) Paul Romeo- Youngstown, OH Vincenzo Tripodi- Steubenville,OH (Cosmo Quattrone was his #2) Jack DeSarro- East Liverpool, OH Louis Volpe- Turtle Creek Salvatore Marino- Sharon, Hermitage & Farrell, Pennsylvania John Scardina- Lawrence County, PA
Each one of these guys had their own crews of made members and the members had about 10 associates each. Each one of these guys made sole decisions in their territory without the brass sticking their beaks in.
Last edited by dinocrocetti; 10/17/15 11:00 AM.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#863634
10/17/15 11:11 AM
10/17/15 11:11 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
dinocrocetti
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
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The real powerhouses in the LaRocca Family were certainly Kelly Mannarino and his brother Sam but most people overlook Joe Pecora, often referred to by friends as Jo Jo. Nobody made a move along Rte 30 withour Joe knowing about it. People could talk about No Legs Hankish all they want but Paul couldn't take a shit without letting Jo Jo know about it. Our local guy, Jimmy Tripodi, ruled with an iron fist. His # 2 man was Cosmo Quattrone, owner of Rex Cigar store and the casino inside. Dean Martin got his start dealing black jack at Rex Cigar. Tripodi & Quattrone were Calabrese and were tied in with the Youngstown Calabrians as well as tied to Tony Milano (Calabrian) in Cleveland and Antonio Ripepi (Calabrian) in Pittsburgh.
Last edited by dinocrocetti; 10/17/15 11:13 AM.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#863635
10/17/15 11:16 AM
10/17/15 11:16 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
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What made you change where you listed for Joe Pecora moving to Wheeling?
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: Friend_of_Henry]
#863637
10/17/15 11:43 AM
10/17/15 11:43 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
dinocrocetti
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
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What made you change where you listed for Joe Pecora moving to Wheeling? After I signed on, I saw that I typed Wheeling because the LaRocca's controlled Wheeling but forgot Joe was in Chester down the road.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: IvyLeague]
#863645
10/17/15 01:14 PM
10/17/15 01:14 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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Sciacca was overheard on wiretap in the 1960s saying that the Bonannos had 180 members. He was in a position to know the exact numbers. Also, it seems that many forget to include the Montreal crew. Bonanno was apparantly criticed for making new members when the books were closed. I don't see how Bonanno would allow his family, which was one of the three original families in New York, to be smaller than the Colombos or Luchesses. Especially because Bonanno was seeking to become the most powerful boss and was accused of 'planting his flags all over the world'. If one goes with the higher estimates at its peak, 180 members or more would be believable. Sciacca has to be wrong about the size of his own family, because D'Arco said the maximum size for the Bonannos was 125-140. It's common knowledge that the Bonnano cap was that size. Maybe the common knowledge wasn't known by the Bonanno boss.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: mulberry]
#863655
10/17/15 02:34 PM
10/17/15 02:34 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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Sciacca was overheard on wiretap in the 1960s saying that the Bonannos had 180 members. He was in a position to know the exact numbers. Also, it seems that many forget to include the Montreal crew. Bonanno was apparantly criticed for making new members when the books were closed. I don't see how Bonanno would allow his family, which was one of the three original families in New York, to be smaller than the Colombos or Luchesses. Especially because Bonanno was seeking to become the most powerful boss and was accused of 'planting his flags all over the world'. If one goes with the higher estimates at its peak, 180 members or more would be believable. Sciacca has to be wrong about the size of his own family, because D'Arco said the maximum size for the Bonannos was 125-140. It's common knowledge that the Bonnano cap was that size. Maybe the common knowledge wasn't known by the Bonanno boss. Absolutely. D'Arco's word is final. As boss of bosses from the early 1900s up until he turned rat, he was in the thick of everything. He knows more about your grandmother than you do. He probably has a picture of D'Aquila and Maranzano having luch together, and he knows where Hoffa's body can be found. All kidding aside, no one besides D'Arco has ever mentioned such a specific number cap for the families. And a family boss always has more knowledge about his own borgata than an outsider.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: dinocrocetti]
#863656
10/17/15 02:53 PM
10/17/15 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
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What made you change where you listed for Joe Pecora moving to Wheeling? After I signed on, I saw that I typed Wheeling because the LaRocca's controlled Wheeling but forgot Joe was in Chester down the road. Fair enough. However I was always under the impression that John LaRocca succeeded Frank Amato Sr. as Boss of the Pittsburgh LCN. Then Michael Genovese succeeded John. Thus they were more than just territorial Bosses. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also did Joe Pecora deal directly with Paul Hankish or did he have one of his soldiers deal with Paul? If so: Do you know who that was?
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#863658
10/17/15 03:07 PM
10/17/15 03:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
dinocrocetti
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
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That is correct. The overall boss was Amato, then LaRocca and then Mike G. However, the LaRocca family operated where a Capo was the boss of their own territory. Joe never dealt with anybody personally unless he was to throw you a beating. Zottola was a long time loyalist of Mr. Pecora so I would assume Zottola dealt with No Legs. Speaking of No legs, his son died not long ago, was found dead in his Scott Township, PA home. He was a nice guy but got caught up with Porter and company back in the early 1990's. My friend's dad dated No Legs wife after he died, I think her name was Pat. A real looker in her early 50's, I could only imagine what she looked like years ago. She would walk into the Lightning Rod Club and guys would jerk off in the bathroom. If No Legs only knew, he was a jealous monster with her and would have chopped somebody's head off for even having fantasies about that broad.
Last edited by dinocrocetti; 10/17/15 03:08 PM.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#863662
10/17/15 03:22 PM
10/17/15 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
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So far - so good ;-)
The first time I met Paul was at his ranch house in Wheeling. Zebo told me not to look at his wife. As soon as she answered the door, I knew why. Then Paul came over on a car mechanics crawler. Believe me, my eyes never looked up the whole time we were there.
BTW: Zebo was Jo Jo's go-between.
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#863665
10/17/15 03:38 PM
10/17/15 03:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
dinocrocetti
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
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If you came from Steubenville, all you had a penchant for was gambling and whores. All kinds of whores, black, white, oriental and my personal favorites, red heads:) And I can assure you that Paul controlled all the whores from Wheeling/Steubenville and parts of Western PA.
Let me ask you, did you know Silvio Pinciaro, longtime East Liverpool bookmaker and very close to Jimmy Tripodi? They called him Birdy and he had aguy named Tree that would drive him. Tree was about 6'8, 325 pounds and was a former Right Tackle for PITT. Anyhow, tree carried a blackjack with him and thoroughly enjoyed using it. Long story short, I had no idea who he was one evening and I was in the phone booth outside and he needed to use the phone. Anyhow, he kept knocking on the booth and I called him a guerilla and told him to take a fucking hike...needless to say, the window of the booth shattered and he cracked me a few times over the head with the black jack. Once Birdy saw it was me, he came flying out and gave Tree a tongue lashing becuase I was Stogie's guy.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#863684
10/17/15 06:42 PM
10/17/15 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
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Your description of Larry Garono, Jeep, is spot on. I never held Lenny in high regard. Michael was so concerned after Joey got hit that he assigned Zebo to look after him. No, Lenny didn't order the hit on Joey.
As you may know, Lenny rolled on his lifelong friend, Bernie The Jew, after he paid Bernie to wack Ernie Biondillo.
I knew Jackie, Cyrak and 2 gun Jimmy. Jimmy was an "Old School" Boss and everyone made money. I actually use to play poker with Jimmy. He never saw a card he didn't like ;-)
Is it safe to assume that you recognize my avatar?
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: Friend_of_Henry]
#863878
10/20/15 02:44 PM
10/20/15 02:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
dinocrocetti
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 289
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Your description of Larry Garono, Jeep, is spot on. I never held Lenny in high regard. Michael was so concerned after Joey got hit that he assigned Zebo to look after him. No, Lenny didn't order the hit on Joey.
As you may know, Lenny rolled on his lifelong friend, Bernie The Jew, after he paid Bernie to wack Ernie Biondillo.
I knew Jackie, Cyrak and 2 gun Jimmy. Jimmy was an "Old School" Boss and everyone made money. I actually use to play poker with Jimmy. He never saw a card he didn't like ;-)
Is it safe to assume that you recognize my avatar? I'm sorry Friend of Henry, I am not online during the weekends, the old lady told me I couldn't demoralize her if I was online Saturdays and Sundays, so I chose to close up shop during my weekends Sure, I recognize your avatar. I used to see Henry every Thursday (well most of them anyways) in the late 1980's into the early 1990's when he would stop by a longtime Steubenville restaurant called Capri Sausage and Meatball, referred to as Capri's. It's been a staple in Steubenville for well over 35 years and the tavern was always known to have action. One of Jack DeSarro's guys ran the joint, longtime bookmaker and numbers operator. Other than Jack, he had the largest book in the area. I'd rather not mention his name because I know his son has been on these sites before. I remember the trial in Youngstown, DeSarro was indicted back in the 1990's as well with Cyrak for promoting illegal gambling and operating an illegal numbers lottery. I never met Mr. Lenine Strollo but I did know his brother Danny from Campbell, my niece is married to the gentleman who lives next door to Danny. Danny was always the gentleman, I couldn't say a bad word about the guy. Plus, my niece's husband works alot of nights out at GM so having Danny next door certainly makes my niece feel safe, even if he is around 85/86. Prato I remember very well, my wife and I used to eat at the Calla Mar a few times a month in the mid 1980's and have been to many weddings there. He had an uncle or a cousin that was said to be "the man" in Youngstown for many years. I believe his name was Dom or Don. He was tight with our two local guys, Jimmy Tripodi and Cosmo Quattrone. All the Calabrians stuck together in those days. I remeber very well when Tripodi was 87 years old and his wife had died and he took his .38 and put a bullet in his mouth either around Christmas day or just before Christmas day out in his garage in 1987. I lived 5 houses down from the Tripodi's. He was close with Tony Pep from Pittsburgh and to the Milano's in Cleveland. I did not know Bernie but I knew Ernie, everybody knew Ernie. He was an affable guy but always went overboard with the booze. I knew his daughter back in the early 1990's very well, I met her up in Youngstown at a campus bar called Pal Joey's. She was a hot ticket back in those days but I haven't seen her in probably 20 years at least. Very classy as well if my memory serves me correct, she certainly knew how to refuse any advances. Speaking of Garono, I know a guy that is referred to as Big Gary, he had a beef with Garono back in the mid 1990's and we were shooting dice at the Greek Coffee House in Youngstown, Big Gary worked there from time to time. Garono came in that night to collect the halfway take and an argument ensued behind closed doors...needless to say, when Garono came walking out, he was white as a ghost. One of the guys told Garono that if he wasn't Mr. Strollo's sidekick, Big Gary would have torn you part limb for limb. Garono had an answer for everything. Out of curiosity, do you know anybody in Niles? Malvasi ring a bell? I miss the old man, he was a class act. My wife is from Niles, so I've listened to the stories my father in law would tell me about Niles, big gambling town I'm told. The only reason I knew Malvasi was because of the restaurant. My father in law used to play cards and eat great food in the back room with Malvasi and a few others. I remember they had very good hot peppers in oil and excellent Veal Scallopini.
Last edited by dinocrocetti; 10/20/15 02:47 PM.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: mightyhealthy]
#864043
10/21/15 04:26 PM
10/21/15 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
Friend_of_Henry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
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Hopefully you're not asking my opinion. I only know/speak from my own experiences. I'm not a researcher.
"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: Friend_of_Henry]
#864052
10/21/15 05:22 PM
10/21/15 05:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Hopefully you're not asking my opinion. I only know/speak from my own experiences. I'm not a researcher. Same here. For the most part, I only post what I personally believe to be true. That's why you'll rarely see me post outside of my comfort zone of New York, mainly in threads related to the Bronx and East Harlem.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#864089
10/21/15 11:21 PM
10/21/15 11:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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I think if we're talking about the heyday for most of the Families it's going to be right at the end of Prohibition. The New York Families did a lot of recruiting for the Castellammarese War and during the period when selling alcohol was illegal and they were making money like it was water. The numbers would have been at their highest then, shrinking due to attrition.
Chicago had higher numbers back then not only for those reasons, but because the Outfit absorbed several other Families. The Outfit absorbed the Chicago Mafia, Chicago Heights and Gary, Indiana. Rockford and Milwaukee also absorbed a lot of Chicago Mafia guys who didn't want to work under Capone. Again though, the membership roster shrunk as members died and weren't replaced, and many of them weren't active so were members in name only. So it's possible that up to the 1950s Chicago had around 300 members. For the Gambinos and Genoveses during the period following Prohibition I've seen numbers as high as 700 or so. I'm not vouching for the accuracy of those numbers, only that the numbers peaked during that period.
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Re: Crime families size in heyday and present day
[Re: pmac]
#864094
10/21/15 11:56 PM
10/21/15 11:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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I would agrea with whoever posted they make guys probaly for numbers. They kinda did that for awhile. Strength n numbers. Al d'arco the perfect example 33 yrs ago he didn't make his bones wasn't a earner but did as he was told and was related to another made guy. The feds can't what the mob guys anymore. There not killing like all the dirt bags home grown terrorist. They need to watch for the next fucking Sandy hook that's sick. If the want to induct 5 10 guys into a family every year in NYC or even the lil families outside whose gonna no. If they just made guys for the numbers they'd be making them left and right in NY with no cap. But they do have a cap and can only make guys to replace those who have died, plus two more at Christmas time. And the feds seem to be able to keep tabs rather well. I imagine the same sources who give them info on the current leadership of a family also tell them when someone has been recently made. Heck, even Internet mob watchers like us have fairly extensive lists of recent ceremonies. I don't think they know about every single member but I doubt more than 10% of a family at most is flying under the radar.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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