Fredo

DT, for the life of me I just can't see Fredo having the physical ability or disposition to murder anyone let alone two hitmen.

Didn't we see a car screeching away from the compound's gate just as the guards were closing it?

As for Fredo: he seems to be the last man standing for the murder of the shooters. And, given his treachery....

But, like Oli, I doubt he had the strength and the cunning to do it by himself.

TB, the vehicle you cite is being parked in front of the gate.

He certainly had it in him to hide his connection with Ola and Roth, and he clearly knew what he was doing would be viewed by Michael as treachery. Even an idiot like Fredo when put between a rock and a hard spot, might have it in him to kill the assassins. Maybe it might have even been an act of revenge; "I thought you guys were just gonna scare Mike, but instead you tried to take him out!"

Roth had clearly compromised Fredo, and sufficiently that Fredo was even able to tell Michael later of who in the Congressional committee was on Roth's payroll. Roth and Ola had clearly let Fredo in on some of their secrets, perhaps to more closely bind him to them. That being the case, Fredo would probably have done anything, including killing the assassins, to prevent the extent of his treachery from being discovered.

I think this possibility is too quickly discounted and needs to be explored. Given where they were found, it is entirely possible that these two were killed and left by the drain pipe prior to the shooting. That would make escape more feasible - not only do you have your scapegoats but their discovery would lead an investigation to focus on a specific part of the compound that could be easily avoided.

Fredo's bumbling effort (if it was that) to respond to his Father's attempted murder, his statement to Michael that he couldn't control his wife as well as his leaving his wife's removal from the dance floor in Rocco's hands would indicate someone who could barely tie his shoes let alone kill two hitmen.

I agree with olivant. Fredo killing the two assassins is way too far fetched, even ridiculous. Fredo might very well have opened the drapes, but he certainly wasn't capable of killing two tough hitmen, let alone slizing their throats. And him doing it out of revenge because he thought they would only scare Mike... Fredo wasn't very clever, but he was also not retarded...

And yet, unless we concoct a second traitor, there is no one else but Fredo. The only other possibility is a third man, who shot the two would-be assassins and then fled.

But Fredo, whatever his emotional and intellectual deficiencies, had cut a deal with Roth and Ola, and had allowed their hitmen to pierce the Nevada estate defenses. Roth and Ola must have deceived Fredo as to their true intentions, but he certainly had the wits to help the assassins to get close to Michael, so is it that far fetched that he killed them?

This wouldn't be like Fredo's failing to help Vito during that hit. In that case, Fredo was taken completely by surprise, and clearly did not have the nerve to fend off such an attack. But this would be much more premeditated. Fredo would be waiting by the culvert, perhaps a friendly face to the hitmen as they fled. He would have had the time to get his nerve up, and besides, what choice did he have? If either of the assassins had been captured, he would have been quickly identified as the traitor.

If Fredo was viewed by Roth and Ola as a good enough tool to get at Michael, then maybe he was a good enough tool to get rid of the hitmen.

What if there was a third shooter? What if he was instructed by Roth/Ola to take out the other two after the deed was done?

Just blue skying here, think the bank robbery scene at the beginning of the Dark Knight....

After I posted a few days ago, that thought did come to mind again.

Wouldn't it be the case that Fredo would have some sort of "crew"? Yes, they might be a token group of heavies, as much to watch over the Don's idiot older brother as to carry out any kind schemes, criminal or otherwise. Fredo was running hotels, so clearly he had people under him.

What if it wasn't just Fredo who was turned by Roth and Ola, but some of Fredo's men? I can well imagine Fredo not having the stomach to kill the shooters, but one of his lieutenants might have pulled the trigger on his orders. That would satisfy the requirement that whoever killed the two shooters was in the Nevada compound, that Fredo was knee deep in the plot to kill Michael, even if he didn't think Roth was actually plotting assasination, that Fredo himself clearly wasn't gutsy or clever enough to make a play like that on his own, but to cover his own butt, he needed to get rid of the shooters. Fredo is stupid, but not that stupid.

Beyond even that, if Roth and Ola were using Fredo to get at Michael, if I were them, I'd be turning some of Fredo's subordinates. Getting those guys into the compound to kill Michael was a dangerous gambit, and I doubt anyone as smart as Roth would leave the whole plot hanging on someone like Fredo Corleone. Presuming they couldn't get at Michael's inner circle (which Fredo clearly and explicitly was not a member of), the next best thing is Fredo's inner circle, some of which would have been with him at the party.

One of my fantasies is that I'm seated on an airliner and FFC sits down next to me. The first thing I say to him is: "Who killed the Tahoe shooters?"

And if he said, "What? That wasn't clear in the movie?" They'd have to turn the plane around.

The "professional" assasins did a poor job IF it was really their intent to kill and not to scare badly the Don. I have to wrap my mind around the possible imcompetence of so-called professionals directed by a head of crime syndicate...

It had to be Fredo, as implausible as that is. Also doing a poor job was Michael's security people. How did theyget in, set up, shoot and then get killed without Michael or Tom knowing who killed them?

Fredo kinda wins by default, doesn't he?

I think that if Fredo was involved in killing the Tahoe shooters, there's some difficulty explaining the "you guys lied to me" phone call. If he knew someone was being murdered at the end of the night, how could Fredo have been deceived about what Ola wanted him to do? If he was told that he was helping Ola look at papers in Michael's office or something (or even kidnapping Michael), then the people carrying out the action would have to leave the compound to complete their assignment.

Pete, remember that Fredo told Michel that the hit was only carried out to scare Michael because he was being tough on negotiations. I can believe that Fredo would fall for that. Regardless, I just can't see Fredo have the physical or mental ability to murder (don't forget surprise) 2 hitmen.

Fredo had be the one ... a huge clue is the scene right after Michael and Tom are talking in the boathouse, and an hysterical Deeanna (Fredo's wife) is screming that "they" were right outside her window.

I don't know about that DT. Given that she was hysterical, she was probably making a generic and exaggerated statement about the assassination location. Even if they were there she said they were, that would not make Fredo complicit.

Just trying to keep up with the group. I never realized that Mike meet me in the boathouse. I was under the impression it was his house. Besides the bedroom, where there any other scenes in the Nevada house?

Could this be just one of those situations, shall we say "plot hole" When Hitchcock was faced with a question he couldn't answer, he is known to say "Its only a movie".

It's a shame Hitchcock didn't direct GF2. Then we'd know who opened the drapes - Hitchcock!

You are correct. We know who opened the drapes in "Dial M for Murder"

If they hadn't cut all of Manolo's scenes from the Trilogy, we'd have the answers to many of these questions.

First of all, it need not have been a surprise. If Fredo was behind the assassination attempt (even if he didn't think it was an assassination attempt), then the hitmen would likely have trusted him. And while Fredo is an intellectual and emotional midget, he's not so stupid as to not see that those two hitmen, if captured, could very well finger him.

So my version of events is that the two hitmen manage their escape, heading towards the ditch/sewer. They're in a very big hurry, because if they're not well away from the estate pronto they're caught. Fredo meets them there, and because he's a co-conspirator, they don't think anything of it. Being in a hurry, probably even panicking because they've just shot (maybe killed, they have no idea at that point) one of the most powerful crime bosses in the country, even someone like Fredo could take them by surprise. "Hey, fellas, quick this way!" and then blam blam!

And while Fredo certainly was a pretty weak fellow in brains and courage, he had had enough nerve to try to go out on his own by cutting a deal with Ola and Roth. Heck, he had even managed to keep secret his visit to Cuba with Ola.

Would it have taken nerve to kill the assassins. Yes, it would have taken nerve, but even someone like Fredo, confronted with the choice between killing two men and having it revealed that he had conspired with Roth and Ola against Michael, might find a brutal execution a fairly easy thing to do.

And, of course, it got easier after that. Michael left almost immediately after the attempted assassination, so he really wasn't faced with having to spend any time with Michael until a lot later. Even in Cuba, when Fredo arrives with the money, he almost spills the beans to Michael.

So, in a way, Fredo's weak will gave him enough strength to save his own skin.