chicago mob companies still get big money city contracts, ohare airport, cps, etc.

plus they're still in the teamsters

i'm pretty sure they have more power than atleast one ny family

I think the Bonannos are still in better shape than the Colombos.

Interestingly enough, I found this list of rats/informants on the internet. Didn't get a chance to cross check yet.

Friday, March 9, 2012
List of NY Mafia Rats/Snitches/Informants/Turncoats
Bonanno Crime Family - 14 Members who have Flipped

Genoroso “Jimmy the General” Barbieri - Soldier/Former Acting Capo
Joseph "Jersey Joe/Joe the Rat" Bonanno - Soldier/Acting Capo
Paul Cantarella - Soldier
Richard "Shellackhead" Cantarella - Capo/Acting Underboss
Dominick Cicale - Soldier/Acting Capo
Frank Coppa - Capo
Joseph "Joey Mook" D'Amico - Soldier
Frank "Curly" Lino - Capo
Michael “Sonny” Maggio - Soldier
Joseph "Big Joey/The Ear" Massino - Boss
Nicholas “P.J.” Pisciotti - Soldier/Acting Capo
James "Jimmy Tag/Big Lou" Tartaglione - Capo
Salvatore "The Chief/Good Looking Sal" Vitale - Underboss
Peter Rosa - Soldier

Gambino Crime Family - 12 Members who have Flipped

Alfonse “Jim Carra” Attardi- Soldier (Dead)
Dominick "Fat Dom" Borghese- Soldier
Primo Cassarino- Soldier
Joseph "Little Joe" D'Angelo- Soldier
Craig DePalma- Soldier (Dead)
Michael "Mickey Scars" DiLeonardo- Capo
Frank "Frankie Fapp" Fappiano- Soldier
Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano- Underboss
Robert Mormando- Soldier
Alfredo “Freddie The Sidge” Santantonio- Soldier (Killed)
Nicholas “Nicky Skins” Stefanelli - Soldier (Suicide)
Name Not Revealed - Soldier

Colombo Crime Family - 17 Members who have Flipped

Paul “Paulie Guns” Bevacqua- Acting Capo
Reynold "Ren" Maragni - Capo
Rocco Cagno- Soldier
Dino “Big Dino” Calabro - Capo
Joseph "Joe Camp" Campanella- Capo
Joseph “Joey Caves” Compatiello- Soldier
Salvatore "Big Sal" Miciotta- Soldier/Acting Capo
John Pate- Capo
Alan Quatrache- Soldier
Michael "Mikey/Yuppie Don" Franzese - Soldier/Acting Capo (Left the life)
Anthony "Big Anthony" Russo- Acting Capo
Sebastiano “Sebby” Saracino- Soldier
Greg “The Grim Reaper” Scarpa Sr- Capo (Dead)
Gregory Scarpa Jr.- Capo
Carmine Sessa- Consigliere
Michael “Mikey” Souza- Soldier
Frank “Frankie Blue Eyes” Sparaco- Soldier

Genovese Crime Family - 8 Members who have Flipped

Anthony “Bingy” Arilotta- Soldier
George Barone- Soldier
John “Futto” Biello- Capo (Killed)
Vincent "Fish" Cafaro- Soldier
Felix Tranghese- Capo
Joseph "Joe Cago" Valachi- Soldier (Dead)
Louis Moscatiello- Soldier/Acting Capo (Dead)
Renaldi “Ray” Ruggiero - Capo

Lucchese Crime Family - 15 Members who have Flipped

Anthony "Tumac" Accetturo- Capo
Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso- Consigliere/Underboss/Acting Boss
Peter "Fat Pete" Chiodo- Capo
Alphonse "Little Al" D'Arco- Capo /Acting Boss
Joseph D'Arco- Soldier
Joseph "Little Joe/Joe D" Defede- Soldier/Acting Boss
Eugenio "Gene" Giannini- Soldier (Killed)
Frank Gioia Sr- Soldier
Frank Gioia Jr- Soldier
Steven LaPella- Soldier
Frank Lagano- Soldier (Killed)
Dominick “The Gap” Petrilli- Capo/Soldier (Killed)
Thomas “Tommy” Ricciardi- Soldier
Vincent "Vinny Baldy" Salanardi- Soldier
Frank "Goo Goo" Suppa- Soldier

What are you talking about the LCN is made up of mostly Scilians heritage and the rest are from Naple regions and Calabria.

Are you also living in fantasy land ?

not one made guy has ratted since 2011.....

^^That we know of GR. There could be a few that are ratting as we speak. We won't know until the next take down.

are you in fantasy land? most of the made guys especially the younger guys are 5th generation Italian Americans most of them have no idea about Italy or there heritage


these guys are not drug traffickers half of them are bookies you need to understand there is a big difference in culture and how these guys operate in the LCN and the Ndgranatha if you cant see the difference then you cant understand why this would never happen

true but people say guys are flipping constantly and its not true there has not been that many made guys to flip in the last ten years aswell sure there has been guys like nicky skins and russo but it is not a common thing most of these guys are stand up more rats in the 90s so climent is not making sense more guys flipped in the past than now

look at the mafia in Sicily they have hundreds of rats and then people are saying that its only the LCN who have guys flipping all the time

You gotta point there GR.

Your the one that replied to my original message and inserted things that I didn't say, mocked it and then accuse me of being in fantasy land.
Are you in Wonder land ?

I love to carry an intelligent conversation with you. Tell me did you graduate from Harvard, Yale ?

everything I said it is me contradicting one of your earlier points if you really want i can quote everything you have said and then why i replied to you but i dont really have the time

Why did i say you were in "fantasy land" and insult you? well i see you saying that to ivy who is the most knowledgeable on this site which made me want to show that you are the person in "fantasy land" as you said to ivy i was not going to reply till i saw you say that

anyway i cant be bothered to argue with you anymore i have said my piece

Now your telling me that LCN are not dealing in drugs. I guess all these books, and movies on the LCN are all a fabrication. Oh yes the press is also not telling the truth we can't believe them either. Here goes those words Fantasy Land again !

I guess you don't like a taste of your own medicine!

I think you're too quick to jump to certain conclusions or engage in hypotheticals. In any case, whatever the Gambino's involvement in the drug trade, it won't make them the top family.

The Northeast, and New York in particular, remains the most diverse and competitive when in comes to narcotics. The latest reports have the Mexicans being the dominant drug group as far north as Philadelphia/South Jersey. But in the New York metropolitan area (which includes North Jersey, the northern suburbs, and part of Connecticut) they still have to compete with Colombians, Asians, Cubans, and others (including the Italians) who are involved in the drug trade.



The American mob certainly is involved in drug trafficking, especially the NY families. But, while it is one of their core businesses, it's not their primary racket like it is for the mob in Montreal or the Ndrangheta in Europe. Gambling is. The opposite could be said for those groups. The Montreal groups and Ndrangheta clans are involved in gambling but drugs are their primary racket.

never said some members are not dealing drugs its 2016 the majority of these guys are involved in gambling and loansharking some also deal drugs but there is not many full time drug dealers

if you cant see that then i dont know what to say

@ Ivey


I get you, but I think you are too quick to dismiss what I'm saying, I think it's weird for you to say, "Whatever their involvement, won't make them top family". When we don't have a clear understanding of WHAT THAT INVOLVEMENT IS EXACTLY AT THIS POINT. Also a little naive about the world as it is today.
It's like climent said with the patterns, this isn't some fanboy shit, or wishful thinking. There are two super dominant criminal groups in the world today, and they both deal narcotics extensively. And to the best of my knowledge, the Gambinos are the only American mafia family confirmed to be plugged in to the network. (Not only that, but NewBridge showed all three mafias working together seamlessly...)
I made a point before of bringing up the New Bridge arrest, and the numbers thrown out, believe me Ivey, with the channels these people have set up, they have created a money flood. Look at Canada, all these murders are not over some gambling operations or construction unions. This is who controls the money flood of narcotics. I'm not saying the Gambinos are automatically stronger, but I think the drugs make up for a lot of whatever they might lack as far as sophistication. I mean drugs alone took the Rizzutos from a crew, to an organization on par with the TOP MAFIA FAMILY in America.
Now as far as the Northeast, it's not competitive at all, only on the street level, retail level. And you can't control the entire market in NY on the street level, you can in certain areas, but it would take too much manpower to control every corner, bar, club, basically every possible distribution point in a city as big as New York. You can only control it from the supply/importation end of it. And let me tell you, South of Canada, the Mexicans HAVE NO COMPETITION AT ALL. Show me a group outside of the Colombians (and I'm not sure how true this still is, with the Mexicans making inroads into Peru) that can beat their prices? Who? For cocaine? Their cheap heroin? That's why I wonder where it leaves the Dominicans. Same on the other side of the Atlantic, the calabrians have such trusted relations with Colombians that they get shipments on consignment. That leverage is what made them the top cocaine brokers, no one is beating those prices. It's no surprise that they are basically sharing the global cocaine market.


It's a point I guess I failed to make in the other thread about the drug trade. New York is the biggest market, but like you point out, it's the most diverse and fractured one as well, you can only control it by controlling the supply end.
To be the biggest drug dealer in Baltimore, you find the biggest dealers with the most territory. Take Brooklyn, do you sell to the biggest gang in Bedstuy, Brighton Beach, Sunset Park? If I'm black, even if I have a solid connect, can I actually DEAL with Russians, or the Chinese? Or middle easterners? A hispanic trafficker will deal with other Spanish speaking criminals right? But this type of clannish practice leaves you limited to specific areas or populations right? How could a Black, Spanish, Asian, or Italian trafficker take over a territory, outside of their own ethnicity? If I want to dominate the drug trade in Brooklyn, which group do I pick? The answer is you have to pick ALL OF THEM, and you do this by selling them wholesale quantities' and then you can have influence over the entire trade.This is the genius of a guy like Rizzuto, he plugs into the white, Hispanic, black, Asian markets, like he has contacts with EVERY GROUP, thus maximizing his control over the overall trade.

There have been but a handful of cases involving American families and members of the Sicilian Mafia or Ndrangheta in recent years so I don't see much basis for some of your predictions. Obviously the Ndrangheta doesn't have the kind of presence in the US that it does in Canada. And like with the Rizzutos in the past, most of their drug importation is going into Canada for distribution there. That is what the war is over. Not so much the US market. Some goes to the US but, whatever involvement the Gambinos have, it won't be enough to propel them to the top. They don't have the market share.

Speaking of which, read any recent report, like the DEA Drug Threat Assessment or New York/New Jersey HIDTA, and you'll see the drug trade is very competitive. The Mexicans may have the rest of the country sown up to a large degree but not the New York metropolitan area or northward into New England. They're there but have not established the kind of dominance they have elsewhere as they still face competition from more groups. The Colombians still have a strong presence in the region (there and South Florida being their last strongholds) and Dominicans often remain the go-to middlemen for both Colombians and Mexicans. And there are the Asians (mainly Chinese and Vietnamese) who are big traffickers of high potency marijuana and ecstasy. You also have Cuban groups that are big into marijuana. As, outside of the strictly drug groups, you have other OC groups (Italian, Eurasian, Balkan, Middle Eastern, African) that smuggle drugs to one extent or another. Just due to the diverse nature of New York, the Mexicans face stiffer competition than anywhere else in the country. And it doesn't help that it's so far away from the Mexican border.

I would add that the Gambinos have long had a bigger stake in the drug trade than the Genovese. The Bonannos too. But that hasn't made either of them the strongest family, has it? The Genovese are involved too, of course, but their supremacy comes not having the biggest piece of narcotics but being the most diversified overall, including having the biggest stake remaining in what set the LCN apart from other groups- labor unions and legitimate industries. Within the sphere of the LCN, that and gambling will always be more important than drugs. They're "still the best things to have," to paraphrase Tom Hagen.

Let's see now, I am supposed to believe you never said that; but yet you say things about others that they didn't say.

I think you went to Yale. This is getting very confusing.

I agree to a large extent with everything you are saying, but I do think the competition you,mention in New York, is on the retail end. I just don't know of many groups on the wholesale level this side of the Atlantic competing with the Mexicans as far as cocaine. Ditto with the Calabrians on the other side of the Atlantic. Maybe ONLY the New York Dominicans...


I would bet that high grade marijuana in NY, comes from Canada, the British Colombia area, I once read in a book there are so many grow ops, it ranks as the highest concentration of organized crime operations in North Ameica. Also from Cali and Colorado as well, I mean I know guys who get it shipped direct to em, not just weed either,edibles, wax, oil.
The Vietnamese run grow,ops, but I thought they were west coast based.
The competition you mention, I think we are saying the same things in our post as far as the diversity, and intensity in NY.... I just see it on the retail,not supply ... Put it this way, with ALL the ethnicities, black, Hispanic, Asian, middle eastern, all these groups are going to, at the end of the day, buy wholesale fromDominicans, Mexican, or Colombians. And the Colombians and Mexicans are the prime movers...

I would also think the Colombians primary focus is supplying the European trade (Euro, more money, no need to cow tow to the Mexican cartels because of border dynamics.. For the same reasons I think the Dominicans remain the trusted middlemen, that and the shared language) I've read that they are completely ENTRENTCHED IN SPAIN, the Mexicans tried to make inroads, but were thrown out. Also, Brazil is the 3rd biggest coke market, maybe they retail there too..
But all in all, I guess it's fair to say the strongest narcotics syndicates, ARE NOT BASED in the US, even though this is the biggest market. And with the laws here, it's probably simply not smart ( outside of maybe providing financing) for the American mob to involve itself.

Always a great pleasure reading your posts Cabrini..

Well written Cabrini I enjoyed reading your posts also.

Thanks.... Sonny !

They are. It's not even a question.

Louis Moscatello ( Genovese) wasn't a rat. If he was he wouldn't have died in jail.

As I said, in pretty much every other area of the country, the Mexican DTO's are the dominant group for cocaine, heroin, marijuana, and meth. They rival the Colombians in South Florida and are dominant in the north part of the state. But I have yet to read of them having that same dominance in the NY metropolitan area. There the Colombians are still a big factor, even as the Mexicans continue to expand. Obviously you have the supply level followed by various wholesale levels before the actual retail level sales to customers. The competition can also be found in those wholesale levels.

But this goes back to my original point. While the Gambinos continue to be big in drug trafficking, that wouldn't be enough (even with Ndrangheta links) to make them the top family. The Italians don't have the market share.

I'm curious why some people even come to that conclusion.

Don't forget the Puerto Ricans in NY / NJ . They are very deep and import now too

Just a couple final thoughts @ Ivey..



I know you say NY is far from the Mexican border, but that actually means very little to organizations with their own subs and tunnels. I've said this before, the trouble is getting it past the border, they can truck this stuff to wherever it needs to get to.


Notice I said the strength of Colombian traffickers is going to depend on how open the Caribbean is. Cause Ivey you gotta understand why the Mexicans got big in the first place, the Caribbean route was shut down, pushing everything over land and the border with Mexico. This is why I was saying at the top, the TOP, it's Mexicans and Colombians. There is no other group with the connects to deal with the sources for coke. It's going to be a Colombian or a Mexican at the top because they control a lot of the production, transportation, and importation.

Now I did some research and it does appear that Miami is making a comeback as THE HUB FOR COCAINE. This is something I noticed a while back, made a thread about it. Cuba, I noticed all the politicians, businessmen, many celebrities traveling there more and more frequently. This appears to me that the Caribbean is about to go through some boom times in the near future. With all the business being set up, it seems inevitable that drug routes will resume throughout the Caribbean. Couple this with the anti- immigration political rhetoric around the world and I see border politics in the near future raising the cost of doing business for the cartels.

It's funny, in the other thread, I was saying Mathews had a bigger drug operation cause he had the supply end of 22 states. You said we don't know if that would be the biggest operation, cause we don't know the market share of the mafia. But I countered they would need the entire NY to equal 22 states, which is impossible due to the size and dynamics of NY. And here you are kinda echoing that, I wonder why you ever disagreed in the first place? Lol

First, New York being so far away does matter. It's why a kilo has typically risen in price the further you get from the border. Because the added risk the transportation involves even after the drugs are in the US.

Second, if I remember correctly, I said it was impossible to compare because we don't know the relative sizes of the drug markets in those 22 states and how much of the market Matthews supplied. His organization operating in those states doesn't necessarily mean it provided the entire supply.

Maybe it's just because it's late and I'm tired but I don't see the correlation to this thread. My points are pretty simple:

1. While Mexican DTOs have been identified as the dominant drug organizations virtually everywhere else in the country, I have yet to see them identified as such in the New York metropolitan area or New England. They're there certainly but, at least as of the latest reports, still face more competition from Colombians and other groups to a lesser extent. But that could very well change in the future.

2. While the NY families still have considerable interests in narcotics, they have been marginalized in the drug trade overall. As a result, whatever position the Gambinos have, even with possible Ndrangheta connections, wouldn't be enough to put them ahead of the Genovese as the top family.

Typically the farther away the higher the costs but when you deal in large volumes the price is lower. This is how the Calabrians were able to corner the cocaine markets in Europe and other countries.The FBI did confirm that they have made alliances with several New York families. They have connections with Mexicans Zettas and a long standing relationship with Colombians not to mention other large crime organizations.