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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: getthesenets]
#890065
08/08/16 04:00 PM
08/08/16 04:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
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Does anybody recall another election that was like this? Meaning, people aren't getting behind one candidate but rather standing against the other one?
I'm waiting for the dueling bumper stickers/buttons that read "Not Hillary" or "Not Trump".
Because of the nature of this election, candidates don't even have to sell themselves or their plans. No, there hasn't been an a "voting against the other guy" presidential campaign that I'm aware of going back to McKinley. I think there are "Never Hillary/Never Trump" stickers out there. I might even get one. Why most normal Americans give two fucks about Estate Taxation, I have no idea. Estate taxes are a big deal for family owned farms, which America needs. Most people aren't aware of how small independent farmers are hurt by estate taxes. The land with farm buildings and equipment may be overvalued, but it's not something that there's a big demand to buy. So the estate tax forces the beneficiaries to come up with a ton of money to keep the farm. It's not a win by shutting down farms. http://fortune.com/2015/04/13/death-tax-killing-american-family-farms/
Last edited by Faithful1; 08/08/16 04:06 PM.
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Faithful1]
#890071
08/08/16 04:16 PM
08/08/16 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,434 CT
mightyhealthy
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Posts: 1,434
CT
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Does anybody recall another election that was like this? Meaning, people aren't getting behind one candidate but rather standing against the other one?
I'm waiting for the dueling bumper stickers/buttons that read "Not Hillary" or "Not Trump".
Because of the nature of this election, candidates don't even have to sell themselves or their plans. No, there hasn't been an a "voting against the other guy" presidential campaign that I'm aware of going back to McKinley. I think there are "Never Hillary/Never Trump" stickers out there. I might even get one. Why most normal Americans give two fucks about Estate Taxation, I have no idea. Estate taxes are a big deal for family owned farms, which America needs. Most people aren't aware of how small independent farmers are hurt by estate taxes. The land with farm buildings and equipment may be overvalued, but it's not something that there's a big demand to buy. So the estate tax forces the beneficiaries to come up with a ton of money to keep the farm. It's not a win by shutting down farms. http://fortune.com/2015/04/13/death-tax-killing-american-family-farms/ So you do what everyone else with a brain does when you have over 11 million in assets - you buy life insurance. That provides the necessary liquidity to pay off an Estate Tax liability. Besides, if you read your own evidence, you'd notice this: "But as to the actual number of family farms hit by the estate tax, only 20 farms in 2013 paid estate taxes and no farms have been reported sold to pay off an estate tax debt." So, yeah, let's turn off a couple billion dollar revenue stream because it ended up hurting zero people in 2013. Makes sense. Listen, any business manager worth a grain of salt should be aware of Estate Tax issues at their death. That's how it is. It's fascinating to see rich people try and bring up the cause of small farmers to try and garner support for removing the Estate Tax. Remarkably cynical.
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890073
08/08/16 04:40 PM
08/08/16 04:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935 Past caring, then hang a left
helenwheels
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Past caring, then hang a left
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In addition there are a number of ways built in to to help 'family farmers' (and BTW if you and your spouse are sitting on a farm worth in excess of $10 mil, good for you for being so well off. You're in the storied 1%). There is an exemption that gives them a reduction of up to a million to bridge the gap between the value of their property at the "current use value" versus the "highest and best use value." Heirs also get 15 years to pay that 'family farm' estate tax off. But most of the statistical evidence says that the vast majority of farms bequeathed to relatives don’t pay any estate taxes. Even fewer are in a position where they can’t pay the liability. Ain't No Family Farms Lost Due to the Estate Taxhttp://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/aint-no-family-farms-lost-due-to-the-estate-taxhttp://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/08/us/talk-of-lost-farms-reflects-muddle-of-estate-tax-debate.htmlAccording to a Congressional Research Service report in 2013, less than 1 percent of farm operator estates is projected to pay any estate tax. And that’s because there are exemptions for farmers and small businesses written into the estate tax code that allow most farmers — with a bit of estate planning — to avoid the estate tax altogether. For example, if the heirs agree to farm the land for another 10 years, they can get up to a $1 million exemption by valuing land at its farm use value rather than development value. An additional $500,000 exemption is possible if one agrees to a perpetual conservation easement restricting the use of the land. It is also possible to reduce the value of an estate by giving portions of the estate to heirs as a gift over a number of years. For a full description of exemptions available to farmers, see this Congressional Research Service report, starting on page 2. http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/thunes-estate-tax-distortions/
Last edited by helenwheels; 08/08/16 04:47 PM.
All God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.
I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: mightyhealthy]
#890080
08/08/16 07:20 PM
08/08/16 07:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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"Family farmers..."
Lol. I see this is a Paul Ryan talking point, not surprising. Does Paul Ryan give a fuck about farmers when he wants to destroy Social Security? What a prick. LOL. I don't know if that's a Paul Ryan talking point or not, but your assertion that he wants to destroy Social Security sure sounds like one of Nancy Pelosi's talking points. In addition there are a number of ways built in to to help 'family farmers' (and BTW if you and your spouse are sitting on a farm worth in excess of $10 mil, good for you for being so well off. You're in the storied 1%). There is an exemption that gives them a reduction of up to a million to bridge the gap between the value of their property at the "current use value" versus the "highest and best use value." Heirs also get 15 years to pay that 'family farm' estate tax off. But most of the statistical evidence says that the vast majority of farms bequeathed to relatives don’t pay any estate taxes. Even fewer are in a position where they can’t pay the liability. Ain't No Family Farms Lost Due to the Estate Taxhttp://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/aint-no-family-farms-lost-due-to-the-estate-taxhttp://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/08/us/talk-of-lost-farms-reflects-muddle-of-estate-tax-debate.htmlAccording to a Congressional Research Service report in 2013, less than 1 percent of farm operator estates is projected to pay any estate tax. And that’s because there are exemptions for farmers and small businesses written into the estate tax code that allow most farmers — with a bit of estate planning — to avoid the estate tax altogether. For example, if the heirs agree to farm the land for another 10 years, they can get up to a $1 million exemption by valuing land at its farm use value rather than development value. An additional $500,000 exemption is possible if one agrees to a perpetual conservation easement restricting the use of the land. It is also possible to reduce the value of an estate by giving portions of the estate to heirs as a gift over a number of years. For a full description of exemptions available to farmers, see this Congressional Research Service report, starting on page 2. http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/thunes-estate-tax-distortions/ When I have time I'll double-check those Left-wing sources. I've found bias and errors in both the New York Times and Factcheck.org, so I don't take them at face value. No one should.
Last edited by Faithful1; 08/08/16 07:24 PM.
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: mightyhealthy]
#890087
08/08/16 08:18 PM
08/08/16 08:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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There is bias everywhere. The NYT often gets criticism from the left. See: Manufacturing Consent.
But more importantly, if you read your own link, you would have seen the Estate Tax farmer issue is overblown.
Until then, I will be waiting patiently for your analysis. Yes, the NYT gets criticism from the Far Left. I'm familiar with Chomsky, and has good points, but as someone who defended the Pol Pot regime he has his own credibility issues. If I'm wrong on the Estate Tax I will admit it. Since I'm far from being a millionaire it doesn't personally affect me one way of the other.
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Faithful1]
#890088
08/08/16 08:37 PM
08/08/16 08:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461 Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan
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Green Grove Retirement Communi...
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When I have time I'll double-check those Left-wing sources. I've found bias and errors in both the New York Times and Factcheck.org, so I don't take them at face value. No one should. lol. Facts are now "left wing". No. Facts are facts. Stupid comments like yours are left wing. I'm not going to argue with you because anyone who has a wrestler in their profile pic is probably 10 years old.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890106
08/08/16 10:49 PM
08/08/16 10:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935 Past caring, then hang a left
helenwheels
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935
Past caring, then hang a left
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50 senior GOP security officials issued a statement on Monday calling the Republican nominee “dangerous” and a risk to America’s “national security and well-being.” https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...out-republicansEdited to add: Susan Collins just came out against Trump. I think that’s the first sitting Senator up for reelection...
Last edited by helenwheels; 08/08/16 10:57 PM.
All God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.
I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890128
08/09/16 04:38 AM
08/09/16 04:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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I think a Trump endorsement may be a kiss of death. In San Diego County, Congressman Darrell Issa, a hardcore pro-Trump guy, is down in the polls and has good chance of losing. GOP Arizona senator Jeff Flake said Trump is in danger of losing his state. In Utah, Trump lost to Cruz in the primary and now an ex-CIA operative turned congressman is running against Trump as an independent. He needs Ohio, but John Kasich won't endorse. Senator Susan Collins of Maine won't vote for him. Trump burned all his bridges. He claims to be anti-establishment but has almost all establishment Republicans on his staff, while many Tea Party conservatives formed the #NeverTrump movement. I expect Trump to have the biggest loss since Walter Mondale, who only won one state.
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Faithful1]
#890151
08/09/16 01:55 PM
08/09/16 01:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021 far, northwest
Binnie_Coll
OP
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OP
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Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
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I think a Trump endorsement may be a kiss of death. In San Diego County, Congressman Darrell Issa, a hardcore pro-Trump guy, is down in the polls and has good chance of losing. GOP Arizona senator Jeff Flake said Trump is in danger of losing his state. In Utah, Trump lost to Cruz in the primary and now an ex-CIA operative turned congressman is running against Trump as an independent. He needs Ohio, but John Kasich won't endorse. Senator Susan Collins of Maine won't vote for him. Trump burned all his bridges. He claims to be anti-establishment but has almost all establishment Republicans on his staff, while many Tea Party conservatives formed the #NeverTrump movement. I expect Trump to have the biggest loss since Walter Mondale, who only won one state. great observation faithful, cant disagree, you have done your homework, I certainly hope you are right about trump only taking one state, it might take that to dissolve the republican party.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890185
08/09/16 08:43 PM
08/09/16 08:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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great observation faithful, cant disagree, you have done your homework, I certainly hope you are right about trump only taking one state, it might take that to dissolve the republican party.
I don't think having a one-party state is a good idea either. A banana republic superpower, that's simply too much power for one side. The concept behind our Constitution is checks and balances, not unbridled power.
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