I counted 20 members dead since 2001 in my opinion if as it's happening, whites are disappearing from Detroit (they are just the 10%) can happen only 2 things or family will die and the various Tocco, Giacalone and co become legitimate businessmen or the family would made only by the Tocco-Giacalone families and another big bust or another man that flips or a black gang that want to kill the italians... and the family will die.
But it's just my opinion.

If we go with members/possible members who have died since 2001, it's over 30.


Mateo "Mike Bartello" Bartolotta (2003)
Carlo Bommarito (2007)
Anthony "Tony Long" Cimini (2005)
Anthony "Tony the Bull" Corrado (2002)
Michael DiAngelo (2002)
James "Vincent" Galici (2005)
Anthony "Tony Jack" Giacalone (2001)
Anthony "Fat Tony" Giacalone, Jr (2013)
Vito "Billy Jack" Giacolone (2012)
Jack "Jackie G" Gianosa (2003)
Salvatore "Sammy G" Giordano (2002)
Salvatore "Sammy Soup" Lentine (2002)
Dominic Licavoli (2003)
Salvatore "Soupy" Lentine (2002)
Sam Lucido (2011)
Peter "Milwaukee Pete" Maniaci (2003)
Vincent "Little Vince" Meli (2006)
Anthony "Pretty Boy Tony" Munaco (2005)
Leonardo "Leo Monday" Monteleone (2006)
Rafaela "Jimmy Q" Quassarano (2001)
Joseph "Jo Jo" Ruggirello (2013)
James "Jackie Two Guns" Russo (2012)
Anthony "Tony T" Tocco (2012)
Jack "Black Jack" Tocco (2014)
William "Billy Boy" Tocco (2007) (suicide)
Paul Tocco (2014)
Daniel "The Trigger" Triglia (2013)
Dominic "Lefty" Tringale (2007)
Dominic Vaccari (2001)
Frank "Chinky" Versaci (2012)
Anthony "Tony Z" Zerilli (2015)

That's a good way to put it.



Really the only disagreement I've had with Scott - and this goes back some years on another forum - is his charts and how he's generally presented the state of the Detroit mob. But even while disagreeing, I've said many times that he's provided a lot of good information about Detroit otherwise. It's where he started before branching out with his Leonetti book (his best work in my opinion) and his blog where he writes about several families.



I could concede all the explanations you made above for the relative lack of cases but I'm not sure how much it really changes.

In other words, even if I were to add Detroit to the list of remaining families, I still see little evidence (other than Scott) of an overly hierarchical family (as shown in his charts) with 40, 50, or more members, that is criminally diversified and operates far and wide in and beyond Detroit. Because that's the picture that's been presented.

Do I think there is some semblance of an organized structure in Detroit? Yes. Do I think it includes a boss, street boss, underboss, consigliere, a few "counselor emeritus," 4-6 captains or acting captains, in addition to the soldiers? No. Do I take Scott's membership figures and charts at face value? No. Why not? Because they fluctuated over several years, ranging anywhere from 30 to nearly 60 members. And only later on, and after many debates, did he say that not all the names he listed were necessarily made members.

Do I think 50 members for Detroit is a stretch? Absolutely. That would make it similar in size to New Jersey, New England, or Philadelphia which all have larger Italian-American populations. Furthermore, as I've pointed out about a bazillion times now, the feds had the family at 30 members at most 20 years ago. 20 years for crying out loud! Am I supposed to believe Detroit has somehow bucked the general trend over the last two decades and actually grown in size? Especially when many of its members have died over that time and even Scott hasn't said there's actually been any recent making ceremonies. And speaking of Scott, even he had the family at 25 members in his 2006 book.

Even if I consider the family to still be active, does that mean there's any evidence it's very diversified? Not much at all. It's mainly a bookmaking operation with some loansharking and card games. And, yes, you could say that about other families. Involvement in the drug trade is basically non-existent. There really isn't any labor racketeering activity to speak of. Even before LaPiana sold his company. There are certainly many who have legitimate interests, some well off financially. That's what the Detroit mob is today - a gambling operation with interests in legitimate businesses as well. That's not an insult, just a statement of fact.

And does this operation extend to any significant degree beyond Detroit? Specifically the eastern suburbs? No. I see no evidence of it having an active San Diego crew. Nothing really to speak of in Chicago or Canada. Maybe a few old retirees living in Florida. It's very limited in scope, as are most of the remaining mob families now.



Read what I posted above in regards to me thinking they're dead or inactive.



That FBI website article, which has been up for years, is in reference to the family at the time of the 1996 GamTax bust and before.



Nobody is arguing otherwise. But that can't be used as a blanket excuse to put forth unrealistic images of the current size, activity, and scope of the Detroit mob.



And so we see some in law enforcement still consider the family viable. Some OC experts apparently don't include it. But even if there's technically still an existing family, that doesn't mean the organization you believe it to be is reality.



15 years ago now, with several members having died since them and no verification of new ceremonies. And that 2001 article, which I was already aware of, is the last time you'll see 30 members cited.



And?

Very very true and you could say this a thousand times, but some people aren't open to any possibilities. It doesn't matter if there's room for doubt. The logic is: If there's no indictments, it's either defunct or almost defunct. It's a rather odd view when dealing with secret organizations where bloodlines reign supreme.

Detroit Family of the La Cosa Nostra (LCN) an extremely active criminal enterprise consisting of approximately 30 "made members" and between 200 and 300 associates. Detroit LCN members are tightly bound through blood and marriage, making the organization extremely difficult to penetrate. Traditionally, this family has been involved in illegal gambling, loan sharking, money laundering, drug trafficking, and the infiltration of legitimate businesses. They have also maintained a strong relationship with Sicilian Mafia members operating in the Detroit area.
------FROM THE FBI WEBSITE

Almost everyone important in the crime family is related by blood or marriage in some way to almost everyone else of any significance and this makes the organization extremely difficult to penetrate,” retired Detroit FBI agent Mike Carone notes. “For an outsider, whether in law enforcement or not, to get real close to these guys is practically impossible.
------FBI AGENT


To paraphrase Mark Twain, the reports of their demise have been much overstated,” Corbett said. “The current leaders, guys like Jack Tocco, may be on the way out due to age, but there is a younger generation coming up behind them ready, willing and able to take the reins. From its inception, this organization was built for the long haul and it will continue to sustain. I don’t think we’ll be talking about the eradication of the mafia in Detroit for quite a while.”-------KEITH CORBETT HEAD OF DETROIT OC SQUAD 1990-2004

NEW MEMBERS HAVE REPLACED THE OLD,KEEPING THE DETROITS MOB SIZE AT 30------FBI 2001


"They're cloaking themselves in Legitament business,now more than ever. But I'm not saying they're doing Legitament business"--FBI 2009


I DONT HAVE A MADE UP FORMULA FOR FIGURING OUT WETHER A MAFIA FAMILY THAT HAS BEEN AROUND 100 YEARS, ACTUALLY EXSISTS. I JUST GO BY THE MOST CREDIBLE SOURCE OUT THERE.... THE FBI

Lol and if that was my theory, I'd better start arguing that Michael Genovese and Alphonse Tornabene weren't really mobsters, Just misunderstood businessmen

Look...I do have respect for your information you have compiled on all the families, it is quite impressive. But you like to bend things to fit your perspective and at times have been caught ignoring the FBI's view on how certain things are....or happened etc. Obviously I am not saying you are the only one who does this...but u are also guilty of it.

This post is one example. When it comes to someones list that includes possible members...associates that have not been confirmed as made or they are up in the air....you immediately dismiss it as inflated.

However in your attempt to make the Detroit family look even smaller, you wanted to make your list of members who have died in the last 15 years as large as possible, so you include those people listed as questionable. Quite hypocritical of you there, buddy.

Ivy my friend I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post and acknowledge that you did concede some points. I respect the shit outta ur knowledge and research skills and would never shit on u for ur opinions, we just dont see eye to eye on this one..

Im not arguing that their operations are extremely diversified beyond the Midwest, but what I am saying is that since they've always operated in the shadows and that we can all agree Detroit is rebuilding the climate their is ripe for their quiet success..I mean as silvio dante said and its true "our thing" (gambling, girls, drugs, shylock) have always been recession proof, plus some of the past gambling busts scott has reported on involving guys like Allen Hilf were way into the multi millions and involved turf in Ohio and Milwaukee..twl surrounding cities with alotta action but now mafia families..if we agree theyr active and even if u say 30 members, full admin, and say 100+ associates, these guys have to be earning money no? Otherwise they would be pulling cowboy shit or trusting shady fucks like Merlinos latest bust

The point is, I think you are insanely underestimating the strength and power of detroit..your.argument still is not addressing that when they were at their peak they were just as quiet, lowkey, less violent as they are today meanimg how can u claim theyre not extremely active respective to the times..now again im not dumb they dont have the unions like they did ..and also ivy you failed to rebut my point that ur main gauge for activity is cases, yet Detroit has had the fewest made guys flip(1!!) And theyre all related and intermarried..I.e. you cant judge a lack of cases showing an inactive family in this case..

Serious question for you and anyone..do they really not have any teamsters or other union locals theyve infiltrated? Considering they invented union corruption basically and held sway there for almost a century I find that hard to believe, but I defer to more knowledgeable posters..any thoughts?

Ivy,

The FBI says they're alive and well and yet you disagree. your formula would make sense if the FUCKING FBI didn't disagree with you.Stick to being a probation officer and leave the status of the Detroit LCN to the experts at the FBI. I hate to tell you but I think your becoming what you despise most . A deranged poster that comepletely ignores and contradicts the FBI's stance on a particular issue.
I think at this point Jack V Giacolone could personally send you a list of every member of the Detroit LCN Family and a quarterly earnings sheet and you would dismiss him as not credible!
Also you said intermarriage and relatives won't stave off attrition . I hate to tell you buddy but it's the opposite. there's something called intercourse and procreation. meaning these people are born and join the family. it's a familial generational thing meaning as long as they can procreate and give life... The Detroit LCN Family will have life.

Ivy's a probation officer?

Ivy,

Don't wait tables anymore that was years ago and I don't think Detroit is some unstoppable family. I think they have somewhere between 20-30 members and are not the dominant force in sports betting in metro Detroit and surrounding suburbs ,but are the biggest player in that. I believe that with that comes they're juice rackets which I believe are a fraction of what they used to be. I think they're involved not nearly on the same scale as before in stolen goods and fencing. Also dabble in auto and insurance fraud and if someone wants the prestige of working with a mafia family and wants to pay tribute they do that. Also think they have people they can reach out to in the unions if they need a small favor but otherwise labor racketeering is a thing of the past for them. Also believe they have done a good job of maintaining they're modest membership. Also they occasionally murder people,just like they occasionally go to jail. No one has been convicted of a Detroit mob murder since 1934. I guess there hasn't been any since then....

Well, other than my thinking 20 members is likely the max for them rather than the minimum, our views on the family aren't that different.

The issue is their level of activity and not whether they exist or not. All of us agree that they exist and have around 20 to 30 members. It's just that you seem to be the only one who believes they are barely active and borderline defunct. A view most of us find baffling.

The issue is their level of activity and not whether they exist or not. All of us agree that they exist and have around 20 to 30 members. It's just that you seem to be the only one who believes they are barely active and borderline defunct. A view most of us find baffling.

That's because you take the Internet charts you see at face value, believe likely inflated membership totals, and use the "their secretive and intermarried" talking point to explain away everything. I expect some of you guys will use the same reasoning to think Detroit is still going strong 10 or 15 years from now.

At face value? I believe what the feds have been saying. They've already publicly declared several families defunct. It's funny how you believe that and not their take on Detroit. As far as the charts go, I believe they have 22 to 25 active members tops. That's inflated to you? . The fact that they are so few is precisely why it's so difficult to build a case against them. It's not an attempt to explain away everything. It's simply a reality that it's a lot more difficult to penetrate a tight knit group of few than a large organization. This is logic.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/general-n...eral-dies-at-74

I wonder who took over Hilf's package in Suburban Detroit? A package that size doesn't just disappear, there's a lot of money to be made someone took it over...

http://gangsterreport.com/heroin-the-20th-century-detroit-mafia/

Thanks for posting that one Furio. Lots of information that was new to me.

Yeah, that was a good article Furio..

I was also very surprised at the white vs blacks ratio in Detroit, I never knew that. I always wondered why I saw so many black people coming to old Les Gold for cash in that show Hardcore Pawn, this explains a lot. That guy is the quintessential Shylock for me, he could play the lead in the next big screen adaptation of The merchant of Venice.