I remember someone here posting that gravel was seen as higher-class than pavement in the 1940's. Don't remember who said that or in which thread.

I found the post - it's on the second page of the Top 10 Questions thread. http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post886361

I remember that post. Find it hard to believe. In any case, maybe the gravel reminded Vito of Sicily and the crunchiness of his grinding his enemies under foot.

Another subtlety: Watch the look of disgust on Tom's face when Moe Green bursts into Michael's hotel room in Vegas.

Dont know if this was addressed or not, in the beginning of g1, when tom is talking to vito during the wedding scenes about carlo, vito says to never discuss family business in front of him. But near the end of g1 during the big mmeeting in vitos office about the move to vegas, carlo is sitting in. Why is this, this is what i would consider a high level meeting and carlo could / would go running right to barzini and blab.

Vito basically creates an alibi for the later murder of Carlo by bringing him to the center of the family and trusting him with important information. It keeps Carlo nearby, so that they can get at him. It also gives the appearance that the Corleones don't suspect Carlo.

Also, the meetings Carlo attends are partially a sham, even though Tessio and Clemenza are present. The real planning is being done between Michael and Vito, and then one or both of them will meet with Tom, Neri, or Rocco as needed. The circle including Carlo, Tessio, and Clemenza gets only the information that Vito and Michael want them to have.

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."

True enough Pete. But why does Vito show Carlo such affection as he is leaving the meeting and telling him that he's happy for him? That was unnecessary to sustain any fiction of inclusion.

I've been watching the spliced-together, deleted-scenes-included version of the Trilogy that ran on HBO recently:

--There's a seamless transition from the end of GF to Anthony's party in II. At the end of GF, when Kay asks Michael if Connie's accusations are true, and he denies it, Kay embraces him and gives him a guileless, trusting, accepting look. But, as soon as Clemenza kisses Michael's hand and Neri closes the door to his office, Kay has an awful, doubting look as if to say, "Oh, oh.." She follows it at Anthony's party: After Michael blesses Francesca's marriage to Gardner Shaw, Francesca tells Kay: "Uncle Michael is the most wonderful person in the world." Watch the look on Kay's face--"nope." Finally, after the Tahoe shooting, she's clutching Mary and shoots Michael an "if looks could kill" look, and Michael gives her several guilty looks.
--In the Francesca/Gardner Shaw scene, Michael, telling Gardner that he should take a course in business administration, shoots him two cheesy-smile-toothsome looks--very uncharacteristic for him.
--In the beginning of that same scene, you see a hulking youth in the background, wearing a plaid sports coat. In this version, the scene ends with Michael telling Tom, "Make sure her dowry is big: these people think Italian brides go barefoot." But, in the "Saga" version seen endlessly on US cable TV years ago, there's a 10-second extension of that scene: The hulking youth comes to Michael, and Michael says: "How's the football, Santino?" The youth replies, "Fine, Uncle Michael." The youth is Sonny's second son, Santino. We saw Sonny's first son, Frank, in GF, when he gives Vito a get-well card after Vito returns home from the hospital.
--When Connie brings her gigolo, Merle, to Michael in the boathouse, Michael denounces her and Merle ("You go with men who treat you like a whore...This Merle, I don't know what he lives on..."). But Connie speaks up bravely: "I need money." Watch how the camera shifts to Merle, who gives a patented whipped-dog look, confirming what Michael said about "...what he lives on."

No fan ever ceases seeing great stuff in the Trilogy.

Even at your advanced age TB, your cognition is laudable.

Yes, I noticed those same performances, especially Kay's look while clutching Mary. Quite poignant and foretelling.

One thing I forgot to mention, and it's interesting:

In the theatrical release of II, Michael's scene with Anthony just before he leaves Tahoe appears after the shooting. In the "Epic" and "Saga" versions, the scene appears before the shooting. Michael tells Anthony he's leaving for business. After the shooting, Michael tells Tom, "If what I think has happened, has happened, I leave tonight." So, since he told Anthony he was going away, the bedroom scene logically should have occurred after the shooting, not before.

????

TB, are you sure? He does tell Anthony he's leaving before the shooting and he tells him that he'll help him one day. But he tells Anthony that he's leaving early in the morning. THEN, after the shooting, he speaks with Tom.

The fact that he was able to leave for Florida so quickly tells me that the trip was arranged well in advance and had nothing to do with the shooting.

Well, that's why I put question marks at the end. Logically, Michael would have arranged the trip well in advance. And going by train isn't consistent with "if what I think has happened, I leave tonite." That's why I'm baffled by the different positioning in both versions.

Yes I think Michael had that meeting in Florida no matter what, I think it's possible he was going to kill Roth anyways or at the least play along to get what Roth would leave behind if he died like was promised in Havana.

I'll have to watch both versions again to see the swapping of the scenes.

At the roadblock when the rebels' arrest takes place, Michael's driver tells them in english what's happening. Then, Michael (apparently)asks Johnny what's happening and Johnny tells him in Italian. Why? The driver just explained what's happening.

Vito always the nice guy! even knowing Carlo would be answering for Santino and Michael would probably be copping widow Connie's fury

Vito wanted Carlo relaxed, confident that he wasn't being blamed for Sonny's death--"keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."

Same but different!
Driver: Police is making an arrest Would let the car through once the arrest is made
Michael: Johnny?
Ola: Police are cleaning the lousy bandits up It is nothing

Wasn't Carlo relaxed, confident, smirking in triumph gonna be Michael's right hand in Nevada

One of the nice things about III is the large number of little details from GF and II that FFC threw in to keep fans like us alert--such as Neri keeping Zasa "waiting in the lobby," or Connie telling Michael (after Vincent killed two of Zasa's assassins), "Now they'll fear you," or the same song Yolanda sang in the nightclub in Cuba being played by the band at Michael's party...

I spotted another subtle one last night:After Michael is helicoptered to the hotel in Atlantic City for the Commission meeting, the music playing is the same that played when Michael was coming to meet with Fredo and Moe Green at their Vegas hotel.

TB, I always wondered why FFC use that Yolanda song also at the Commendatore party. It's a grand song, but seemed out of place.

He did it to so people like us would recognize the song--a kind of bonding experience with his fans, I guess.

I think I recall some discussion of this in another thread, but here goes.

Anthony's communion is in May (yes, that's the traditional month). Michael goes to Miami to meet with Roth and then goes to New York to see Frankie. There's an abundance of snow in New York. Why? It's May.

Yes, Oli, it was mentioned years ago, and I believe you were the mentioner.

The explanation is simple: Michael made a huge donation to the Church,.and they gave him a dispensation to have Anthony's First Communion in December. It paved the way for him to become a Knight of St. Sebastian at the beginning of III.

I think you're right TB. In a deleted scene, although it's sunny and warm in Nevada even in December, you see at the compound a truck filled with Christmas decorations being unloaded by some men. I think that maybe a couple of them were the assassins.

Last night I watched the melancholy scene in which Michael returns to Tahoe after his travels to NY, Miami and Havana. As he enters his home, Kay is working at her sewing machine. She doesn't even look up when he arrives, even though he's been gone for (probably) weeks. Michael looks in on her, then turns away, bows his head, and puts his hand in front of his face. It's exactly the same gesture he made when it sank in on him, at the Superman show, that Fredo was the traitor. I think it was then that Michael realized he'd lost Kay.

TB, you're absolutely right. However, I believe that he also didn't care. She was of no more use to him just as Fredo was of no further use to him once Fredo's betrayal was confirmed.

That's a dodgy issue, Oli. On the one hand, Michael definitely used Kay--to help with his legitimization with her WASP background, and to bear his children. You might argue that the miscarriage ended her usefulness to him. On the other hand, I think he did care for her, in his way. In the next scene after the one I cited, he sits with Mama and asks if it's possible to "lose your family."

True enough TB. But I wonder if his conversation with his mother was to furnish him with sufficient information to justify his disposal of Kay. When his mother said that one never loses one's family I think he interpreted that as a green light to continue his nefarious ways as well as Kay's continued usefulness to him at no risk to him.

Yea I definitely think he used her too. Wonder how much differently his life would have been had he brought Apollonia home and had kids?