yes, it's big, thousands members as the ndrangheta, just look at how many gangsters are killed in mexico... it seems sinaloa members do not refer to themselves as a cartel, but rather as a federation of families, i suppose they have not made members like in the mafia but loyal people who killed someone for them or who control multiple areas / drugs

M2w, is Ndragheta ranked in the top 3 in your opinion?

I did not know they were that huge. They must be the biggest individual criminal organization in the world right? In comparison to the whole Ndrangheta, I think the Ndrangheta might have their hands in more areas of business and politics. They are big time drug players like the Sinaloa cartel who they are probably buy drugs from. El Chapo was a billionaire though. I’m not sure if there is any one Ndrangheta boss who is a billionaire but it wouldn’t surprise me. They go to great lengths to keep a low profile. Denaro is actually a billionaire and he is in the Sicilian mafia.

Don't think the Mexican cartels are the biggest OC groups in terms of membership. Asian criminal organizations tend to have a ton of members. The Yamaguchi-gumi for instance, even at its all time low, has a whopping 9.500 members.

yes, in terms of membership yamaguchi-gumi is probably the biggest worldwide, i don't know how many associates but the full-time members/made members are currently 10.000 and in the past they reached 50.000

if i look at the indicators probably yes

They are for sure,its very hard to 'rank' organized crime groups,because they try to keep everything secretive as possible. But top 3 would be: italian organized crime, mexican cartels and russians.

With the Mexican cartels being so big(as it was noted, the Sinaloa cartel alone is just as big as the whole Ndranghega), can we say that there is any evidence that supports them being as powerful or wealthy as the Mexican cartels?

how were the Ndragheta able to surpass the Camorra and Sicilian Mob?

'Ndrangheta and Sicilian mafia are more powerful than Camorra , Camorra is more like a street gang, there are clans who are similar to Sicilian mafia families ( Casalesi , Nuvoletta ),but most of them are like street gang. Both 'Ndrangheta and Sicilian mafia have very strong political links and even more important they are well connected to masonic lodges.(P2 in the past etc).

finally!
it has never made sense to compare all of the mexican cartels as a group compared to 'ndrangheta,russian mafia(a whole other thread),american against sicilian mafia as large top to bottom groups.
no 1 person controls all of the russian mafia or 'ndrangheta,sicilian mafia etc...as all of u know.
no 1 person not even el chapo controlled all of the sinaloa cartel when he was outside of prison.the logistics of that are ridiculous.
comparing these large groups against each other is pointless.
comparing individual families,factions,'ndrines,bratvas whatever operating under these groups would be a better question.

looking at the post above about the feb 2009 sinaloa arrests is a good example i'd be curious to know how many of those 750 arrested were directly connected to the el chapo led faction inside the sinaloa cartel.how many were loosely connected or just caught up in arrests and now released.how many were part of other organizations?

the 'ndrangheta #1 would probably be whichever 'ndrine controls the majority of cocaine imports into europe.
there is a dispute as to who that is probably only 2-4 groups?

I thibk nobody can really tell which organized crime is the most powerful or number 1. Because there is to much things we can compare to make a list. Like money, drug distribution, territories, gambling, arm trafficking, involment in politics, the influence in the country etc.

So I think it will be better to make tiers list.

For exemple:

First tier: would be organized crime groups like the mafia, cosa nostra, ndrangheta, jewish mob, mexican cartels, russian bratva and chinese triads.

Second tier: would be japanese yakuza, irish mob, colombian cartels, albanians, italian camorra, hells angels, some nigerians

Third tier: chinese tongs, some nigerians, dominican cartels, biker MC, Yardies

**Some street gangs could be on the list of third tier.
And by the way nigerian crime groups are getting stronger in europe and asia, they can be put in second tier.

*** I domt know if I should put the Yakuza on first tier, since I dont really know their operations and power outside of Japan.

In Russia they are literally the state , pretty much in whole of Eastern Europe , organized crime is "working" for the state. In South Italy they are like shadow state down there

i try to relate it by country and even in the case of canada by province.
in the whole of canada there is no OC group bigger or more influential than the hells angels.
HA spans the country and if u aren't a HA chances r the drugs u sell came from them through the ports or from border crossings.
BUT...not all HA chapters have the same amount of influence and some don't appear to be involved in crime at all.
in quebec resides the 3 most influential chapters in canada in MTL,South and Trois Rivieres.these chapters have alliance with the mafia,independent importers of narcotics at all the major ports and control there own on street distribution through own members or alliance with street gangs.
so as an example the trois rivieres chapter could be the #1 crime group in all of canada even eclipsing mafia groups like the rizzutos and commissos in toronto just by strength in numbers,top to bottom ctrl of narcotics and total profits.in that same thought it could be one of the most influential chapters in the world(remember just an example).
another example in canada would be a HA chapter on the west coast in BC/vancouver as it may have alliance with a mexican cartel for drug import,money laundering through triads/chinese criminals and the same type of top to bottom ctrl of drugs.

Yes the corruption is on another level.

Exactly, the Hells angels in BC and Quebec are different. In Quebec, the Hells Angels are on the same level as the mafia now, since the mafia was weakened since the mafia war.

cosa nostra, ndrangheta and yamaguchi-gumi, for example, altough they have not a boss of bosses (sicilian mafia had in the past anyway) are a single big criminal group, compare a crew to another is pointless just to compare the group as a whole, they would be both 3 in the top inat least 3 indicators (structure, core leadership and longevity)

Yakuza's first tier. Their influence may not be as huge as before, but they still got reach.

The Israeli groups I'd put somewhere more second tier.

Hells Angels it depends chapter to chapter; several Canadian chapters in Quebec and on the West Coast are definitely second tier. Plenty of European chapters can be somewhere between second and third tier.

"Russians" it depends. A group like Solntsevskaya is definitely first tier. The Armenian, Georgian, Azerbaijani or Chechen groups on the other hand are more likely to be second tier.

Other close to second tier groups (imho) would be Serbian/Montenegrin groups, Turkish and Turkish-Kurdish groups and Bulgarian groups.

I'd say plenty of Europe-based drug trafficking organizations could be considered close second tier as well. More than a few Irish, British, Scottish, Dutch, Dutch-Moroccan and French-Algerian groups have direct contacts with Latin American DTO's and move tons of weight.

Corsicans in France still work in a very sophisticated way. They're not as huge into drugs anymore, but still have a low-key stranglehold over casino and slot machine operations.

On the other hand I'd put Lebanese groups in Germany and Australia somewhere between second and third tier.

Pakistani groups in the UK as well move tons of heroin in the West Midlands.
Greeks have plenty of low-key smuggling and gambling networks in any Greek enclave.
Korean groups have rather far-reaching prostitution and counterfeiting networks.
Assyrian families have been implicated in big trafficking operations (the clan Y. in Antwerp was one of the country's biggest cocaine importers for quite some time).
All third tier.

Plenty of street gangs have sets that earn their place in the third tier. In the USA there are sets of African American, Hispanic (Mexican and Dominican of course, but also Puerto Rican and Central American gangs) and Caribbean gangs that move plenty of weight. Several Vietnamese and Cambodian gangs make lots of money from gambling operations; there's even Hmong gangs that found a way to move up (their presence in the Emerald Triangle is well documented).

I'd say it's not only the case in the USA. Haitian gangs in Quebec have made powerful alliances.
Native gangs in Canada have made plenty of money exploiting smuggling networks.
Indian gangs in the Lower Mainland have been into contact with Latin American drug suppliers.
Antillean and Surinamese groups in the Netherlands have been increasingly implicated in large cocaine shipments.
An OMCG like the Head Hunters in New Zealand (heavily Tongan and Samoan nowadays) made tons of money from the local crank trade.
Somali gangs in London have been moving lots of dope with their county crossing drug lines.

Brazilian gangs like the PCC and the CV have become increasingly international in scope.


It's clear that the drug game has led to the empowerment of plenty of groups throughout the world. Even though it has to be said that the vast majority do not have the longevity of the Italian criminal organizations.

D-Company is also up there with about 5,000 members and strong ties to ISI, the premier intelligence agency of Pakistan. It is said the D-Company has diversified its assets like Mexican drug organisations.

in a hypothetical tiers list i dont see how not to put yakuza in the first... it's among te oldest criminal group, highly structured and extremely rooted in japan (it doesn't matter if it is not much widespread)

In terms of longevity Italian OC and Yakuza are head and shoulders above the others.

maybe some chinese triad or tong? i read that all the big triads (14k/sun yee on/wo shing wo) were formed in the 1920s/40s, not sure if there is some older group currently active

Very cool stuff!!

Not sure how to quantity, but whatever element enables an OC organization to infiltrate the Ecosystem in which they operate, and control/dominate it.

Control/Cooperation of Government, Cop, Business Elites. Also, a means to get the money that is generate into the system to be invested in tangible assets( Banking Financial Wing/Cooperation).

OC creates lots of cash, warehouses full, getting that cash into a bank account to spend, unique challenge on its own, the best OC Organization/s will most likely do this at the highest level.

I hope that makes sense lol

the yakuza of which i know little is based in japan.
i have never read of a canadian,u.s.,european,russian yakuza arrest???

as far as the chinese the biggest criminals r those allowed to operate by the communist gov't.
even in china triads and tongs r second place. if the state is not happy with what u r doing that is it.
as leader of a triad group how r u top dog if u have to pay off or are being used by the gov't?

and the solntsevskaya bratva is a myth when was the last time any of these guys were arrested anywhere showing a structure or direction/administration.
the same case in russia as in china.if the state doesn't want your organization to operate it will cease to exist.

semion mogilevich is a good example of this. arrested briefly 2008 i think and then suddenly all charges dropped. what has any international criminal agency indicted him for since being released??

The 'Ndrangheta is like a sect. Calabria wasn't important to the Italian state, so while they have been abandoned, the state focused on Naples and Palermo.

Escobar was by far the richest and most powerful organized crime boss of all time at the height of his power. But the Medellin cartel has lost a lot since then.

Because cocaine is a product people never get tired of.

from 1990-1993 the medellin cartel did not exist.
pablo ran cocaine threw the gaeleano(sic) and moncada families.
both families paid a tax to escobar on monthly cocaine shipments.
there was no cartel after 1990 only because original members were dead or arrested.

He messed up he was too direct & underestimated his enemies.

i tried to do a list of the oldest criminal groups still active... camorra is not included because i don't think the current camorra has any continuity with the old one that was dismantled in the early 1900s

sicilian cosa nostra - middle 1800s

aizukotetsu-kai (yakuza)- 1868

american cosa nostra - late 1800s

ndrangheta - late 1800s

wo hop to (triad) - early 1900s

yamaguchi-gumi (yakuza)- 1915

sun yee on (triad) - 1919