When Moe met with Micheal what do you think he thought the meeting would be about? He obviously didn't expect the meeting to go where it did.

I think Moe knows generally what's going on. He already talked to Barzini about financing, so he must know that the Corleone financing is at risk. My guess is that he doesn't expect things to go immediately to talk of a buyout, and loses his temper.

One question I would have is: would the Corleones have pushed him out if he hadn't been skimming? My guess is that if Moe had been paying the Corleones their full share, Vito wouldn't have allowed the Corleones to go to war with him.

I think Michael and Vito saw legal gambling as the Family's future, and Moe Greene was their entree into casino/hotel ownership. He was getting pushed out no matter what.

As for what he was expecting, probably some sort of offer like he got from Barzini, presumably some financing in exchange for a stake in the business. But he didn't expect Michael to be so aggressive.

Like everyone else, he fell for the feigned weakness of the Corleone family and paid dearly for it.

Woltz, I agree. It was all part of the plan. In fact, Greene made a couple of references to the Corleone's weakness. But as stated in the Novel, Tessio knew that the Corleones didn't intend to persuade Greene of anything; Greene was a dead man.

As Michael reminded Moe, the Corleones gave him a "big chunk of money to finish your hotel," so Moe knew that Michael's visit meant the bill was coming due. I think he hoped that he could cut a deal with Michael that would leave him in control of the hotel, as he claimed he had talked to Barzini about. I don't know if he actually expected Michael to agree, but he figured that his bluster would would save the day for him. As Oli pointed out, he thought he could cow Michael because he saw the Corleones as weak.

I think the reference to "skimming" didn't mean that the Corleones were in on the skim, or that Moe wasn't giving them their share. The context was that Moe was losing money on the hotel--he brought up skimming, as if Michael believed that the hotel's losses were due to the skim going into Moe's pocket.

I think it comes down to the Corleones wanting that casino and either they would buy it or take it, skim or no skim. Also, many viewers knew the Bugsey story, so the script had to accommodate that story to some extent.

I think the phrase "I'm Moe Green" would be a great name for a rock band.

So perhaps Sonny was not that bad a Don! after all

Sonny as acting Don foresaw the Family's future, bankrolled the casino/hotel and sent Fredo over to “learn the casino business”

In a long-ago thread, I argued that Sonny, for all his hot-headedness, made a level-headed, strategic move in sending Fredo to Nevada to learn the casino business and (as we learned later) bankrolling Moe Green. He arranged for Fredo's safety and he planted a stake in what was to become an enormous, booming industry. That stake had an IOU attached to it.

True enough TB. However, are we measured by our successes or failures? I'll bet that, regarding Fredo and Las Vegas and Moe Greene, Sonny had input from Tom. Had he had Tom's input regarding his emotional response to Carlo's assault of Connie, he would have lived to make more level-headed and strategic moves..

I should have known, Turnbull, this wouldn't escape your eye!

What did Moe Greene think the arrangement [IOU] was though

Greene seemed to think indignantly his 'favour' of taking Fredo in, when the Corleones were having a bad time, squares the deal and he owes nothing

Greene kept referring to the casino / hotel as his “You think you [Michael] can come to my hotel and take over?” Greene had already talked to and can make a deal with Barzini and still keep his hotel

If the Corleones bankrolled Greene's casino / hotel because they couldn't get their own licence due to their unsavoury reputation, Moe Greene's reputation was not much better! “I made my bones when you [Michael] were going out with cheerleaders!”

How did Greene get the licence?

If not who was 'fronting' the casino / hotel

Good question.
When gambling was legalized in Nevada in 1931, the State Legislature put control into the Tax Commission. Oversight was lax: they didn't care much about the backgrounds of licensees--all they were interested in was bringing money into the state and taxing the proceeds. Plenty of unsavory characters got licenses, including Bugsy Siegel, the real-life Moe Greene. In 1958, after constant bad publicity about organized crime involvement in gambling, the Legislature took control away from the Tax Commission and put it into a new Gaming Commission, which had much tougher standards for licensing.

It was some welcome party! Fredo had organised for Michael

it was a business meeting

I think it was [another] lost opportunity

Fredo was blindsided Fredo had no idea

• Vito was semi-retired
• Michael was in charge of the family business
• Michael's real reason [buy Greene out] for the visit However acknowledge risky as Fredo could have blabbed to Greene and the surprise element would have been lost

Michael could have handled it in such a way that Fredo didn't end up with egg on his face, in front of everyone

1. Fredo wanted to give Michael a good time
2. piece of banging cocktail waitresses two at a time!
3. Fredo wanted to show off to his little brother

Michael could have thanked Fredo for organising the welcome party but no time this trip perhaps next one or similar

Did Michael really have to tell Fredo off in front of Tom, Neri and Fontane

Tom says, "The Don is semi-retired and Mike is in charge of the Family business now. If you have anything to say, say it to Michael," but I don't think that necessarily means that Fredo hasn't been told this before. I think Fredo mostly lives in a dream world until someone gives him a dose of reality.

Yes. Remember that, before Michael told off Fredo, Fredo angrily shouted: "Mike, you don't come to Las Vegas and talk to a man like Moe Green like that!" Fredo had told Michael off in front of Tom, Neri and Fontane.

Exactly TB. What some Board members forget is what Michael told Tom after his attempted assassination: "You see -- all our people are business men, their loyalty is based on that."

If Michael fails to admonish his brother, then that impugns his integrity as a leader and could affect the loyalty of family members.

Oops! I'd forgotten Fredo's outburst You are right Turnbull Michael had to lay down the law and send the message no one gets a pass

Fredo still took sides against the family with Roth though and ended up sleeping with the fishes

How did that work out

Michael told Tom after his attempted assassination: "You see -- all our people are business men, their loyalty is based on that." was in II Moe Greene buy out was in I

No doubt Michael had to tell Fredo off because of his angry outburst but he could have shown appreciation for his welcome party instead of dismissing Get rid of it

Sure thing Evita Michael was never going to party! “but he could have shown appreciation for his welcome party” and then handled the 'no thanks!' tactfully instead of curtly “dismissing Get rid of it”

Fredo was all excited and undoubtedly feeling important that he was in a position to give his kid brother “Anything you want, kid anything”

Fredo: It's all for you, kid It's all his [Fontane] idea, right? Didn't you --
Fontane: Well, your brother Freddy...
Fredo: Well it was Hey, girls here...I'll be right back... Anything you want, kid anything. Huh?

Michael: [curtly] Who are the girls?
Fredo: That's for you to find out...
Michael: Get rid of them, Fredo.
Fredo: Hey, Mike... uh...
Michael: Fredo, I'm here on business I leave tomorrow, now get rid of them. I'm tired. Get rid of the band, too

[sigh]...if only Michael were a nicer person...
This raises another point"
It is de rigeur for Mafiosi to have goumars. But there is no hint, either in the films or the novel, that either Vito or Michael philandered.

I'm somewhat loathe to state it, but maybe the only thing that I admired about Michael is that he apparently did not have a comare.

there is no hint, Vito philandered He knew Sonny had goumars but did nothing until his brain going soft from all that comedy playing with that young girl affected business

Now that you mention it “there is no hint, either in the films or the novel, that either Vito or Michael philandered” explains why Michael was not pleased with Fredo's welcome party
Tom and Neri also seemed uncomfortable perhaps realising what was coming....

In fairness to Michael, it was a shock to the system!

Michael also seemed taken aback, unaware of Fredo's philandering

totally in the dark

Exactly Evita

Greene was growing in confidence and disdain of the Corleones He gotta kick asses and had to straighten him out demanding contemptuously what is wrong with you?

Michael manipulated, let him win that round but lost his life because of it