Michael left his Tahoe estate shortly after the shooting. He told Tom before he left that the shooters were killed by "someone close to us, inside...very scary." He also told Tom, in effect, that he couldn't completely rule out Rocco and Neri.

Why would Michael leave his wife and kids at the estate while a traitor--"someone close to us, inside"--was still at large?

Good question TB.

The trip to see Roth was obviously planned well in advance. I guess he considered that meeting more important than any threat since it is generally accepted that Mafiosi don't go after wives and kids.

That he had Buschetta escort him to Miami could be taken as his distrust of Neri and Rocco. However, Buschetta's as escort had to be arranged well in advance also.

I've always assumed that since he was an active target, he moved away from his family to keep them out of the line of fire. I've also assumed that he's under the radar for at least a couple of days, until he sets up the rendezvous with Roth.

I guess that, to the traitor, leaving like that would give the impression that Michael was going out to confront whoever Michael thought was behind the hit. That might lead the traitor to relax a little and not make any sudden moves. They probably monitored every phone line they could think of for calls to Miami.

That's a good question, but I'm not sure he "truly" thought that way. Neri and Rocco had long proved they were loyal to the family and to Michael as by that time they were basically his left and right hands. I think he knew it was either Pat Geary (not really likely), Johnny Ola/Hyman Roth, and/or Frankie Five Angels from the start and he knew if he told Tom it could even be Neri or Rocco that Tom would keep things locked down and play it by the book so to speak as we seen when Kay wanted to just go to town. Either way great stuff again TB!

My memory is fading - help me out.

When Michael returns to the compound in the big, black limo, he's returning from where?

He's returning from Vegas, where he had his meeting with Rocco, Neri and Tom, after escaping Havana

Despite watching II any number of times, like you, I notice new things during every viewing and speculate about their meaning.

This time around I noticed that when Michael returns to the compound after Havana and during the Nevada winter, he stops in the snow and looks at the little motor car that Tom purchased for Anthony. Then he takes a long look at his bedroom and the formerly broken window glass from the attempted assassination. Then, of course, he takes another long look at Kay sewing. He then goes to Mama to ask about losing his family. All quite poignant.

I think that Neris' loyalty to Mike is unshakeable - as i stated in one of my previous posts. How do you thank someone that got you out of jail for a possible life / death sentence for murder. If Mike had brought Rocco or especially Neri with him to Cuba the red flags would have been thrown up all over the place. By bringing the old guy, it shows a softened approach, that trip was more business than personal that no was going to get whacked.

I believe i saw in another post that the toy car being left out in the snow was Anthony being mad at mike, something to that effect.

Oli, I'm sure you noticed that Kay didn't look up from her sewing when he came in, even though he'd been gone for quite a while.

BTW: That big black car that carried Michael back to Tahoe was a '58 Chrysler Imperial Crown Ghia limo, one of only 25 made that year, and, at #13k, the most expensive American car of the year. Anyone could have gotten a Cadillac limo of that era; trust FFC to find that rarity to show on the screen for all of five seconds.

I think that, by not bringing Rocco and/or Neri to Havana, Mike may have been signaling Roth that he was still in the dark about who was behind or complicit in the Tahoe shooting.


Great point! Why else would Anthony have left it out in the snow to rust? Added to the poignancy of the scene, as Oli noted.

I always assumed that Kay did not hear Michael come in, due to the sound of the sewing machine. Unless Michael slammed the door hard, I don't think she would have heard him. She felt safe enough there, and she wasn't listening for doors opening and closing, I'd assume.

In my view: The ruthless shooters sprayed Michael's bedroom with machine gun fire, but Michael knew he was the target--if Kay had been hit, she would have been "collateral damage." So, as Pete said, by removing himself from Tahoe, Michael removed the target. His family would be safe, at least temporarily.

He showed courage in going to Havana with only Buscetta at his side. But Michael had an overarching need: to find out who was the traitor in his family. Roth was hot for the $2 million, and as long as Michael could keep stringing him along, he could buy time to identify the traitor. Michael also had the advantage of knowing when, where and how Roth would strike, while Roth still believed Michael was clueless about Tahoe.

A question presents itself: If Roth was so hot for the $2 million, why did he try to have Michael whacked at Tahoe, before he could get his hands on the money? IMO: Roth, too, had an overarching need--to get rid of Michael. Tahoe was Plan A because he wasn't there and Pentangeli would make a perfect fall-guy for the hit. When Plan A failed, Roth went to Plan B: have Michael whacked in Havana. Michael's visit probably was arranged in advance, as Oli said, as a way for Roth to string Michael along on the Havana "deal." But, the $2 million was for Roth to pay Cuban President Batista to have his thugs assassinate Michael. Nice touch: get Michael to pay for his own demise!

TB, your analysis makes sense.

However, a few questions arise. If Michael knew or figured that Roth was out to murder him, why risk his life by being in Cuba where he would be hugely vulnerable? I can't believe that Michael finding out (trying to find out) who was the traitor was worth risking his life?

Perhaps he thought that not finding out who was the traitor in his family was more of an immediate risk. As he told Tom before he left, "This is life and death." He also was trying to keep Roth "relaxed, sure of our relationship." If he'd abruptly cancelled the visit to Cuba, he would have signaled that he knew Roth was the Tahoe culprit, giving Roth a chance to escape, or to strike again.

(Anyway, the real purpose was to set up that splendid Havana scene--one of the best in the Trilogy--as well as Fredo's exposure as the traitor.)

Always love chatting Godfather stuff with you TB, you're a good eye for this movie.

I agree, he took himself away from Tahoe to get the threat away from his family as it almost cost him his wife much like what happened to Appollonia (sp?) when he was in Sicily. No way he was going to risk that again.

And Oli, we found out how stubborn Michael can be when he went after Carlo and all the 5 heads after what happened to Sonny. Yes it's safe to say Vito might have directed some of it before he died, but Michael proved his stubborness as he even killed his own brother as well. NO way was he going to let that attempted assassination go unpunished.

Yes, quite poignant.

I didn't think the toy car rusting and Kay not looking up indicated any anger at Michael but rather the distance between him and his family.

I'm a father and a husband and when I'm away from home, everyone's excited when I get back. Michael is greeted by a rusted birthday gift; empty, silent rooms; and a wife who is totally unaware/uninterested that he's returned.

He sees that he has no real impact on his own family's life, which is why he asks Mama about losing his family.

I have question, dont know if its been addressed in prior posts or not. We all know freddie is whispering in olas / roths ear, a) wouldnt he tell one of them he is coming to Cuba to visit mike ( maybe / maybe not with the money ), b) why wouldnt roth have other spies in the corleone family, that maybe would have found out what freddie was up to,c) if roth had any idea it was freddie, by himself, bringing $2,000,000 IN CASH to cuba he could've very easily had freddie whacked, taken the cash, blamed it on an act of the rebels' been distraught ' over his death and told mike he still needed the money.

a. By that point it seems he cut contact to Ola.

b. Michael was so insulated in Nevada by then they had to trick the dumb brother into feeding them info. That says something

c. Because then he would have for sure give it away that Fredo was the one that more than likely gave things away because only him and Roth knew he would be coming with that cash. Then Michael probably goes to war over his brother regardless and Roth can't have that.

Roth said: "My sixth sense tells me your brother Fredo brought a bagful of money. Where is it?" Fredo didn't need to tip off Roth that he was coming to Cuba with the money--Roth had been gigging Michael about the money and would have been looking for someone close to Michael to come to Cuba to bring the money.

But: Fredo may have tipped Roth anyway. I believe Fredo was much more involved with Roth and Ola than he let on:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post472494

TB, I think it's plausible to think that Roth just assumed that Fredo brought the money ("in the bag in your room"); it's also plausible to think that Fredo had told Roth about it. In fact, at that point in the story, is there any reason to believe that Fredo had severed his relationship with Roth? While at the outdoors bar with Michael Fredo laments the way things turned out, did he still believe that his best shot at respect was with Roth? If so, then it is Fredo who informed Roth of the money.

On the tahoe shooters, on the big screen you can see a slit on the one shooter " facing" the camera. Its as soon as rocco says " its looks like they were hired out of new york", they cut to the ditch. If you are watching it on tv , you have to freeze it right there. Ive seen it locally in the movies here the last couple of years and you can clearly see it.
As has been said in prior posts, freddie dropped the gun when vito was shot by 2 guys with revolvers, what chance does he have with 2 guys with fully automatic weapons ( most likely thompsons ) ??? He wouldnt.

Getting back to my question, why couldnt feddie have been whacked and the money taken and place the blame on guerrilla activity? $2,000,000 is about $18,000,000 today. That would have bought alot back then.

I've paused the Blu-Ray over and over and have never seen that.

As for capping Fredo, wouldn't live long enough to spend that money. Michael would have went to war just to prevent his own people from thinking he is too weak if he didn't go after Roth.

It was very dangerous to bring $2 million to Cuba under any circumstances. Then, as now, it was illegal for any US citizen to bring more than $10,000 cash out of the country. Any US Customs agent looking into Fredo's bag would have confiscated the money and arrested Fredo. Worse on the Cuban side: Their Customs agents would have divvied up the money and made Fredo disappear. Anyone spotting the cash, or knowing Fredo was carrying it, would be more than tempted to whack him and grab it. And, let's face it, Fredo wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer anyway.

This raises another question: why did Michael have to bring the money to Cuba? He was using the promise of the money to string Roth along until he could find out who was the traitor in his family. But, he didn't have to bring the actual cash into the country to keep up the ruse--especially since he knew where,how--and especially--when Roth was going to have him killed.

I seriously doubt Fredo and/or Michael went through customs on their way out or in. Surely he knew of the risk.

When you get right down to it, why would Michael enter the lion's den just to try and find out who was the traitor in his family? That makes no actual sense (while it may make dramatic sense).

While the traitor remains, Michael is in danger. However, he would have the resources to counter or mitigate that danger. In cuba, he had none of that. He could be murdered at any time by either Roth's minions or Batista's or be held hostage.