Was george the only made guy after massino became boss 1993 he order there death? Just means i think he was afraid of him. He was a threat to his power. All massinos other murders were blamed on phill rustelli. It was almost like he wasnt not type of gotti. John gotti has the famous line you know why fatso gonna die he didnt robb anyone he didnt come in when i called him.

I'm not sure but I think you're arguing that the "lies" Massino told other mobsters about his reasons for having Sciascia killed aren't evidence of being a shifty character because what matters is what he told the FBI and what he said on the stand. These "lies," which have been reproduced in several books, quote several mobsters or are attributed to said mobsters. Let's assume that Massino was perfectly consistent and didn't tell any mobster the real reason he had Sciascia killed, i.e., Sciascia's supposedly serious breach of mob protocol.

Why would Massino have to hide from his Bonanno underlings such a justifiable reason for punishing one of his captains? Why would Massino have to hide this reason from Vito Rizzuto?

If Paul Cotroni was in the wrong for breaking the jaw of a made man--assuming this physical alteration even happened--did Sciascia think that if he reported the offense to Massino, that Massino wouldn't deal with it in a proper manner? Thus leading Sciascia to do something rash? Wouldn't Sciascia have recourse by asking Rizzuto to deal with Paul Cotroni? Did Sciascia think he wouldn't get justice by going through Rizzuto?

Let's not forget that Joe Renda was born in New York and was possibly or probably made in New York. Wouldn't he be able to raise Cotroni's indiscretion with Massino or, if going through the chain of command was important, via someone other than his uncle Gerlando?

It's okay to question FBI intelligence and other law-enforcement intelligence. Everyone should remember that such intelligence sometimes consists of wrongly identifying organized-crime figures, regardless of whether the mobsters are in the middle of committing a crime or are sitting in a cafe sipping an espresso. I'm all for considering new theories as to murder motives once new information comes out, but the new theories and information don't automatically supplant the older theories and information.

One could argue that the person confessing to murdering Cotroni, Gérald Gallant, would have nothing to lose by mentioning that a six-feet-under Sciascia was ultimately behind the order to kill Cotroni. That FBI file makes no sense at all.

We could ask the same question about Vitale why would he lie ?
The court document says the following:
Vitale testified as follows: Massino had spoken to Vitale at a social
gathering and asked Vitale to supervise the murder of Sciascia, who Massino supposedly wanted killed because Sciascia had accused Massino’s friend, Anthony Graziano, aka “TG”, of having a drug problem

According to this court document how did we get from Graziano to Cotroni?
Why should we believe Massino but at the same time ignore Vitale's statement?
Anyone that has ever had the experience of being investigated by law enforcement will understand that in the real world,if they have a chance to pin something on you they will whether your innocent or not.

Massino will testify to whatever the the FBI tells him. It could be the FBI that may have had an ulterior motive and not Massino. So if he is told to lie he will.That is the essence of my point. It has happened before, a good example is Boston, read about Whitey Bulger, it was proven that the FBI accused people for crimes they did not commit and were jailed.

Now, I am not saying they are all corrupt.

What I said in the previous thread is that if there is inconsistency between Vitale and Massino then one is lying for sure. They could both be lying for all I care but I have not seen Massino's evidence yet. If there is evidence I would be happy to get my hands on it so that I could make a judgement. From court documents provided, Vitale's statement suggests otherwise and it has no mention of Cotroni.
You guys are really making me work tonight....LOL

This is a reminder that I did ask to see Massino's statements, hope someone can provide.....thanks

Im starting to learn this copy n paste new infomation when im tracking ups packages in about 3 to 5 years im gonna finally be able to post a link. All the shit i read about massinos testimony to george s murder was from capecis blog or old ny daily news marzulli articles wish i could link them. Dont no how. Only learned control alt delete on pornhub when the screen freeze and says it locked a few years back.

I just want to share !

I really enjoyed reading some of the threads on this post thus far. It gets more interesting when several participants are involved.

This interesting passage was taken from the booked "Iced" By Stephen Schneider. Here they give another reason why Massino wanted Sciascia dead.

"Sciascia fell out of favor with Massino because he increasingly sided with the Montreal crew against the wishes of its New York masters.The tipping point appeared to be when Sciascia supported Rizzuto's refusal to send men from Canada to kill the New York Post employee,which forced Massino to delegate the job to Salvatore Vitale.
After Scascia's murder, Vitale travelled to Montreal on orders of Massino to try and placate Rizzuto,who was angered over the Sciascia hit.
Rizzuto was offered the formal position of captain of the Montreal crew. In a stunning display of defiance Vito turned the offer down. By the end of the 1990's, Rizzuto was no longer sending tribute money to New York. This was more than symbolic. While the Bonanno family was in steep decline during the 1980's and 90's,due to deadly internecine battles,the Montreal mafia under Rizzuto was growing in strength, wealth and international reach. Rizzuto's relationship with the Bonanno family was now irrelevant to modern business structure that Vito had been building.It was a bit like a waning alliance on the postal system without the advent of the internet. The sixth family had not only eclipsed the wealth and strength of the Bonanno family in New York,they now seem to have extricated themselves from the hierarchy and were truly setting themselves apart from any of the five families of New York.But as Rizzuto was abandoning a relationship that Montreal has had for more than fifty years,his former bosses in New York were now dragging him down with them."

Maybe some of you saw the amazing pictures of the Giuseppe Bono wedding at Pierre Hotel in New York, the Rizzutos are with the Bonnanos and will always be, hell Vito even killed three caporegimes for the Bonnanos.

Phil rustelli the boss gets out of prison September 1983 till hes indicted with the other bosses in febuary 1985 so he had almost 18 months on the street as boss. In that little time vic controni dies summer 84 is that when probaly urging of massino george becomes the capo of the montreal guys? Who was the capo who succeeded vic controni? By all the shit i read nick and vito were never captains.

To me, this is exactly where the disconnect occurs....


See I don't think Vito hit the capos for the BONNANO FAMILY, like he was loyal to em. Everyone quotes the Sixth Family, and always seem to forget the part where Sonny Red took the Sicilian heroin and didn't pay.

Prompting the Sicilians to throw in with Massino and Napolitano, so as to preserve the heroin ring.

They didnt need the Bonnano Family per Se, what they needed were trusted people in NYC to buy their heroin, move it discreetly and send the money back through the same channels discreetly.

So my opinion, he didn't kill three capos for the Bonnano family, Sonny Red was a heavy at Bonos wedding. He killed em to protect the Sicilians heroin operation.

No sonny reds not in the bono wedding pictures cause he was on lifetime parole his sons there the other 2 capo dom trin. And phil lucky arnt they also Sicilians? Phil lucky was married to carlo gambinos niece. I think the montreal crew just backed what they thought would be the winning side of the family war. At the end of the day didnt carmine galante start the montreal to nyc herion pipelone and induct everyone in to the bonanno family when he took over the family in 1975. Till he got power hungry and whacked in 1979. I still think phil restelli made him acting boss when he went to prison in 1976.

The sixth family book does mention the $1.5 million worth of heroin that Sonny red took on consignment and didn't pay them back.

I agree with the rest of your analysis. I honestly think Vito did it for selfish reasons so that he can expand his drug network. One hand washes the other.

@ pmac

Whoops, you are correct my man, it's JB not Sonny Red in that picture......

Frank D'Asti, a top guy of the Cotronis, visited NY and met Paolo Gambino. He was also at the funeral of James "Jimmy Doyle" Plumeri of the Luccheses. He was indicted in August 1973 for his involvement in smuggling more than 300 kilos of heroin into the U.S and Canada.

Also the allure of the 81 is still irresistible to tons of youth all over the world who want to become rich. Cazzetta patched over to the Angels as late as 2005.