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Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: olivant] #922652
11/06/17 10:01 PM
11/06/17 10:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,716
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,716
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Oli, you've put your finger on an anomaly here: Though Geary knew that Michael "owned or controlled" three hotels and was moving on a fourth, he denied under oath owning any hotels:
QUESTADT
Is it true that you have a controlling interest in three of the major hotels in Las Vegas.
MICHAEL
No it is not true -- I own stock in some of the hotels there -- but very little.

Gangsters routinely take the Fifth at Congressional hearings. They're not trying to deny under oath that they're gangsters--their goal isn't legitimacy, it's to avoid prosecution. I'm suggesting that Michael's taking the Fifth would have called into question his entire legitimate front. That could have been enough to stimulate the Nevada Gaming Commission to start investigating Michael's ownership positions in the hotels and trying to link the owners of record to Michael, possibly subjecting him to criminal prosecution as well as loss of those licenses by the nominal owners. Even if there were no investigation, and no loss of licenses, Michael's reputation would have been seriously dented. Roth couldn't lose!


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: Turnbull] #922676
11/07/17 01:11 PM
11/07/17 01:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Probably so TB. However,I assume that the Commission was as subject to corruption as any such entity. If so, I guess Geary et al could sway the Commission.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: Turnbull] #923508
11/20/17 11:07 PM
11/20/17 11:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,508
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Trojan Offline
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Trojan  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
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slippin' list goes on
Vito, Paulie Gatto, Mark McCluskey, Virgil Sollozzo, Santino, Moe Greene, Emilio Barzini, Carlo Rizzi, Don Fabrizio Fanucci

Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: Turnbull] #924757
12/15/17 11:29 AM
12/15/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
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OakAsFan  Offline
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Green Grove Retirement Communi...
Just rewatched 1 and 2 the past couple of days. Something that should have stood out to me before but there's so many other good characters and stories to distract from it, was just how selfish Michael was compared to Vito. This is why I like the original version of GF 2 much better than some of the tv versions that have the story in chronological order.

It's important to switch back and forth between Vito and Michael in their start up years to emphasize how different their personalities were. Vito genuinely tried to help people. I can't think of one thing Michael did for anyone that wasn't in the commission of an agenda or nefarious act. The first time he invites Fredo out for a drink, he's only doing so to feel him out on the Roth situation. Even this tender moment between the brothers isn't genuine. Mike was gauging him all along.

Fredo, despite his traitorous acts which were obviously unforgivable by mafia standards, had a legitimate point when he criticized Michael for never having paid attention to him. He spelled it out, this was in fact the reason he betrayed him. Vito would have never let his own blood feel this way, no matter how preoccupied he might have been with family business.

"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a true man".

I don't remember if Michael is in the room when Vito says this, but it's advice that could have prevented him from going down a path that led to him destroying his blood family, by way of alienating his wife and killing Fredo.

My goodness Micheal Corleone is one cold hearted character. What a great story by Misters Puzo and Coppola.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: OakAsFan] #924793
12/15/17 11:31 PM
12/15/17 11:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,716
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,716
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All true. He even his beloved daughter Mary as a tool for his legitimization in III.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: Turnbull] #924825
12/16/17 05:50 PM
12/16/17 05:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
Underboss
OakAsFan  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
I'm going to try to watch III again. Just for the story. I'll try to ignore the bad acting. Although I think Neri turns in a fine performance. Old man was loyal to Michael to the end.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: OakAsFan] #924848
12/16/17 11:27 PM
12/16/17 11:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,508
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Trojan Offline
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My two cents worth!

Vito and Michael, sentiments aside....

Times were changing
They were entirely different times, circumstances, people, nefarious or otherwise acts, Mafia family, blood family, wives etc.

Vito could have cut their losses and walked away from Mafia but he didn't because he wanted, needed the Corleone family reputation, standing, history etc. to be restored, leaving a murderous legacy for Michael

Vito planned all the baptism murders including making his daughter a widow for Michael to carry out after Vito's death

No doubt Vito helped people however with the stipulation “Some day and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me”
The only exception I can think of was the help to Signora Colombo

Michael could not grant favours like Vito “must go to Don Corleone for justice” as he was supposedly a 'legitimate' businessman

Vito did not have the added burden of trying to make decades old Mafia business legitimate
Michael and Kay were unrealistic that such a feat could be accomplished let alone in five years

Did Vito pay attention to Fredo, his own blood son?
The way, at the garden scene, Vito dismissed Fredo and some!

"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a true man" Did Vito?
If Vito did, I cannot recall other than business meetings Even with Carmela apart from Carlo and Connie's wedding photo

At the time of the brothers having drinks Fredo had said he had never met Roth or Ola
I believe Michael showed Fredo genuine affection

Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: OakAsFan] #924963
12/20/17 12:47 PM
12/20/17 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
I'm going to try to watch III again. Just for the story. I'll try to ignore the bad acting. Although I think Neri turns in a fine performance. Old man was loyal to Michael to the end.


I think that the ultimate story of GFIII is ignored by so many of its viewers; they focus on casting and performances.

Michael sowed the seeds of his own demise and realized too late the consequences of the life he led and the deeds he committed. His silent scream is the epitome of the agony we all can feel about a wasted life. GFIII is instructive if nothing else.

Last edited by olivant; 12/20/17 01:35 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: olivant] #924964
12/20/17 01:26 PM
12/20/17 01:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,716
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

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Posts: 19,716
AZ
...and the miserable way he died, keeling over from a broken heart, attended only by a little dog.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: Turnbull] #924998
12/20/17 09:14 PM
12/20/17 09:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
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When giving GF3 a rewatch recently, I'd realized for the first time that Uncle Junior holding the cat at the end of "Remember When" was a reference to the end of the Godfather saga.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: Turnbull] #925023
12/21/17 12:32 PM
12/21/17 12:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Texas
Given FFC's concern for dramatic effects, it's no wonder that Michael ended up dying in Sicily. Otherwise, why did he? Why not die in New York? Maybe not as dramatic as dying in Sicily. Did Michael just plain abandon America? So much of III took place in Sicily and it was so much a part of II, but I still wonder why Sicily.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: olivant] #926576
01/10/18 10:32 PM
01/10/18 10:32 PM
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Posts: 1,508
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Trojan Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
I'm going to try to watch III again. Just for the story. I'll try to ignore the bad acting. Although I think Neri turns in a fine performance. Old man was loyal to Michael to the end.

I think that the ultimate story of GFIII is ignored by so many of its viewers; they focus on casting and performances.

Michael sowed the seeds of his own demise and realized too late the consequences of the life he led and the deeds he committed. His silent scream is the epitome of the agony we all can feel about a wasted life. GFIII is instructive if nothing else.

While Godfather part III can be convoluted and unbalanced, we all can feel about the ultimate story, lesson and agony of Michael's horror metamorphosis and his wasted life

He paid dearly, deeply, even more so in part III – parading Mary and his family, resulting in her death and his own lonely, miserable death

“Your sins are terrible and it is just that you suffer” beyond redemption...

In fairness, I believe it was Vito who sowed the seeds with the baptism murders, leaving a murderous legacy for Michael

No doubt Michael's choices, decisions, deeds were good, bad and ugly However so were the circumstances Once in, downward spiral

Re: Michael was slippin' [Re: Trojan] #958073
11/18/18 08:05 AM
11/18/18 08:05 AM
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Capri Offline
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It was all about Michael punishment, misery, regrets, lonely death but still

He was put through the wringer crying over Don Tommasino coffin, forgiveness from Kay, teary confession to Cardinal Lamberto and more

Kay not a murmur even the abortion

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