Were the Rizzuto's that big and that powerful before Vito went away that they could of hit say Cefalu or Bellemo and the Gambino and the Genovese wouldnt of done fuck all about it?

no way they would have the balls to try and mess with ny, and i also can't see why would they want to hit bellomo or cefulo but to the answer you question, then no they are not that strong to hit a gambino or genovese boss and get away with that.
and as far as i know they were strong in canda and had a lot of associates and political connections.
but let's wait to some guys like scalish and hollander and more guys here who knows better in canada to see what they think

I'm just saying what would they of been able to do about it? Send loads of shooters to Montreal, they would of got annihilated

Why? Even Bonanno and Colombo are much larger than Rizzuto as an organization not to mention Gambino and Genovese.
Also, Canada is a wild world for organized crime but NY is not, if they kill a boss in NY feds will be after them for all day and NY families can retaliate in montreal because Canadian authorities will do nothing to stop the body drops.

The Rizzuto's size/strength before Vito went away dwarfed the Colombo's and The Bonanno's.....The Rizzuto's were international fella,,,,,they were wacking people in Sicily

They were strong and had international contact doesnt means they were big in size. They only had no more than 40
members. But I agree that they were very powerful back then. they were powerful because they contorlled politicians, unions and drugs. But start a war with NY? That would be another thing.

30 years ago i wouldn't be asking this of course they'd hit back and with fury....but nowadays would they still have the stomach to go to war....they never get tested like that anymore....would they have the resolve the guts etc

they were very big in connections with politicians, unions, businessmen, but not so much in size
they couldn't kill a boss in ny, the opposite yes
the bonanno's always had a presence in montreal, even today
i bet somebody is revenging the murder of sal montagna

rizzutos are getting waxxed on there on turf.

might be. it seems they want to eliminate every single man from that organization.

its hard to compare the two

In Canada they have no RICO

You can kill in Canada and get away with it

Did anyone get arrested for any of the murders ???
I don't think so

In America these guys are getting pinched on the spot pretty much

Thats incorrect.


I just took this from the google wikipedia defiintion. RICO for a base line reference.



In Canada there are various laws that are similar.



taken from.

http://www.edmontonpolice.ca/CommunityPolicing/OrganizedCrime/Gangs/OrganizedCrimeLegislation.aspx

Now in reading the above one might be led to believe that its pretty much the equal to something like the RICO ACT. Except there is a small problem.

An individual or an organization such as the Hells Angels has successfully launch a Charter of Rights challenge. Effectively what it means is that a blanket designation of a criminal organization cannot be applied to each and every HA chapter/mafia/triad/gang across the country. In each case it must be proven that the individuals are operating as a criminal organization. If a guy is a member of the HA and he gets arrested for trafficking cocaine the crown attorney might say he was doing so to benefit the club. The rest of the members of the club who didn't get arrested will all say "We aren't involved in this." It makes perfect sense from an individual's legal Charter of Rights legal perspective to do so. Thus the law was struck down and amended. The outcome is that each and every time there is a case it must be proven by the crown that the individuals involved were doing so to benefit the greater organization rather than just the 3 or more individuals who got caught. This is often more difficult to do that just prosecuting the initial offences.

So there is "RICO" but its an ineffective version. What seems to be more effective is civil forfeiture laws where by the police designate property and money as proceeds of crime and then the onus is on the individual to prove that they legally acquired said assets.

Oh btw. you can't just kill people in Canada and get away with it. People go to prison for that. They just need to be caught first.

I think the Rizzutos ties to Cun trera-Caruana made them powerful. The Rothschilds of the Sicilian Mafia.

Yes,and the fact that cun trera Caruana from the 1970s was high in cocaina traffick from Venezuela to Canada.

[BadWord]-Caruana argument are right. Rizzutos/ Violi had stronger links to Italy.

But the problem with this question is we don't know "How powerful Cefalu or Bellemo are".

We know a lot about the White Collar Crime in Montreal.
But in New York we had and have less information. We could't look deeply into the business structure for a long time.

Ok so they a RICO but it's ineffective
Isn't that just about the same thing?

How many guys have been killed in this war?
100?

How many people have gotten caught and sent to jail for a decent stretch?

I am asking I know nothing about Canada

I have not read anything

Seems like even the top tier guys go away is for small bids

Nothing to deter them

To me Canada is equivalent to US pre-RICO

There is no way the Rizzuto's come across the border for a war that would never happen. Hell a non-made guy even killed the Bonanno's last boss when came to Montreal and thought his ex-spot would earn him power up there. But there is no way they would go after a boss of any family in the U.S. because then they would be vulnerable to our laws. Vito found that out the hard way when Massino testified against him and that is also what started the overthrow attempt. And of all the revenge killings up there, I seriously think it's a joke to think someone is going after the Rizzuto's "for Sal"

Sal, botched that hit on Dejgargins! and he paid with his life.
If he wanted him dead he should have sent a whole crew of shooters with back up shooters and backups to the backups.

That's how you carry out a hit.
When Gotti wanted Castallleno dead that's how he plotted.
That's how Persico ended the Columbo wae by killing Scoopo.
With crews of shooters.

Like Jr Soprano told Tony, come heavy or "STAY HOME"

Maybe if the guy goes right Sal ends up getting respect and becomes a leader out there??
Maybe

Sorry maybe if the Deagardins hit goes right
Sal takes over a leader in C.A.

Or maybe they kill him anyway..

I don't know

Do we even know who killed who and why?

I mean I know there was a power struggle

It was a Rizzuto faction that took out Rizzuto's whole family?
Why?
Money?

The guy went to prison they took out his son, father and Brother in law...

How does the last son walk around with out thinking
I am going to get real soon?

I mean the kill everyone up there

Even if Sal was successful, he would have died once Vito got out just like what happened to Di Maulo, Gallo, etc. Once he made that choice to take over he sealed his fate even if Desjardins didn't kill him and he killed Desjardins first.

Why would they want to hit a boss of the two biggest LCN families ? Dropping bodies in today's world if you are Cosa Nostra is crazy.

And speaking of Cefalu, for being the alleged Gambino boss he has been on the street for the last several years no? He took over after Jackie Nose/operation old bridge ?

Maybe if they hadn't started fighting inside their own group (Desjardins vs Montagna, and Di Maulo doing nothing and acting like he was permanently asleep even when Vito was already out to get him), they would have killed Vito, not the other way around. Vito was powerful, but not bulletproof, imo it was more the lack of organization among the "conspirators" that brought them down.

That could be true, but if you remember the stories at the time was that he was a dead man walking already until Di Maulo fell and things changed. He still had his share of hitters and wasn't even out 2 months maybe?

"Domenico Manno"

I literally laughed out loud when I saw this picture. Dude looks like Cujo.

I don't know anything about what happened

When Rizzuto got out he was marked for death?

He had some shooters left and they took out Dimaulo and that changed the tides?

They took out Gallo too. Fernandez in Sicily even.
they took out a lot of the competing faction at that time were hit.

what have been interesting to see what would have happened w Toronto

So what was it all about the move against Rizzutto

Just an opportunity to take the top spot?

So a faction of his family moved against him
Killed his son, father and brother in law

So they can take over the money and the power??
It was all greed?

Aren't the Rizzutos still in business? Leonard just beat his case in Montreal. They're not going anywhere.

All the details are not quite known on the "why" and "who" just yet on everything.

As for if they are still in business, yes they are still in business with supposedly Leonardo Rizzuto/Stefano Sollecito running the show. Frank Arcadi who was street boss while Vito was locked up just got out too.

And probably revenge for the murders of the Violi brothers.