Of course he's not going to admit to being the head of the Rochester mob. You think we can ring up Frank Cali and he'll say he's the boss of the Gambino mob?



Apples and oranges. Todaro Sr. and Jr. were two unconvicted members of a family that suffered a shitton of convictions in the 80s and 90s.
The feds weren't able to convict them of anything, but the feds were able to say with confidence that the two mobsters were the heads of the Buffalo mob, and they declared that in the 80s. They also named them as participants in gambling, murder, and other crimes.
As well as this, the two Todaros weren't quite as in the firing line as one might think. By 1988, Todaro Sr. was semiretired and living in Florida. So the feds were probably looking to pin some old murders on him, but their real investigations were the ones that secured the busts. Todaro Jr., meanwhile, stepped down from his Laborers role in 1990 and, although said on wiretap that he'd try and keep his foot in the door and continue to exert control over the union, we know that this failed because his self-proclaimed "key guys" that were essentially to running the union, Peter Gerace and Peter Capitano, were booted out.

Also, the feds' informants were good enough at securing indictments combined with other investigative techniques like wiretaps, physical surveillance, forensics, and bugs, but feds didn't have that with the old murders that the Todaros were suspected in. No wiretaps or anything implicating them. So when a weaselly fuck like Sacco implicated the Todaros in murder, they couldn't use that as the basis for an indictment. When it's just one rat implicating someone in murder, then it's a tricky case to win.


Got a link.


You missed the point of blogging awhile ago when you told me to shut up because no one cares what I think. Open discussion.


Does every construction scam have to do with the Mafia? No, and there is no evidence that this Ciminelli one did. This was a plain and simple scam. What would the mob's role in this be? And don't you think that if there was a mob angle to this then prosecutors, feds and news reporters would lap it up?
I am not saying everyone in Buffalo is clean. But this article doesn't help your point because a construction exec committing a crime does not implicate the mob and, like I said before, many people who were once part of the Buffalo mob family probably still retained some form of criminal nature.



Beyond the basic concept of debt collecting, these are not Mafia-like tactics. Wiseguys don't have law degrees, and don't threaten legal action against their debtors.
Is this the same Frank that's Leonard's brother?
If so, then this Frank has never been implicated in organized crime by the feds beyond the fact that his brother was a high-ranking member (to the best of my knowledge; I don't know too much about him). Frank Falzone ran for the Buffalo City Council, and was accused of getting his union job from his brother. Whilst this may be true, he was never actually charged with any crimes, accused of any crimes, or implicated in any crimes.
This forum post questions that he is a real defense attorney, and claims this is a scam to collect debts. But the fact is that Frank Falzone is a real attorney and has represented a number of defendants over the years (as well as running for Buffalo City Council). Here's proof:
http://buffalonews.com/1990/04/30/heidi-jo-kessner-is-bride-of-frank-e-falzone/
http://buffalonews.com/1993/05/13/actions-speak-louder-than-attorneys-words/
http://buffalonews.com/1989/04/04/woman-who-led-police-to-body-was-key-figure-in-1985-slaying/
http://buffalonews.com/1989/04/03/kenmore-couple-linked-to-death-of-former-witness/
http://buffalonews.com/2015/05/01/tonawanda-drug-dealer-admits-selling-fatal-fentanyl-laced-heroin/
http://buffalonews.com/1998/12/03/slaying-case-is-forwarded-to-grand-jury/

So no, this was not a Mafia-type loansharking operation. He is an attorney specializing in debt collecting. Whilst the loan-debtors on that forum you posted might call that into question, they're wrong.
The Mafia and their debtors know that what's going on is illegal. The Mafia waves guns at people and beats people up to collect their debt. They threaten with physical violence. What we have here is an attorney specializing in debt collection: and not just any attorney, but a Republician City Council candidate at that.


NickleCity, do you believe the feds and the Mafia in Buffalo work together? I'll have to read the detailed articles you posted when I get home soon.

Rooster in the following legal document you will see that Louis P. Ciminelli served as a trustee for mob controlled LIUNA Local 210 and was named in a RICO suit along with Leonard Falzone and numerous other Buffalo soldiers and associates.
[quote]

I think that's Rooster's point. But it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that a former mobbed-up construction exec is still committing relatively standard-level scams in the 21st century. If there was an organized crime or mob tie there, I'd be interested, but the fraud charges aren't connected to the Buffalo mafia.

How did the funeral director know who Bifulco was? He worked for Colucci Funeral Homes in The Falls, lived in Niagara County most of his life. He was there for the funeral and interment for Sonny Nicoletti's, recognized Frank Bifulco from the papers and heard everyone calling him Butch.

Fair enough.

Rooster in the following legal document you will see that Louis P. Ciminelli served as a trustee for mob controlled LIUNA Local 210 and was named in a RICO suit along with Leonard Falzone and numerous other Buffalo soldiers and associates.


Agreed there is not enough evidence to prove a mob connection with Ciminelli today. Probably never will be. Just like they never proved any illegal activity for Joe or Joe Jr. Todaro. To use your logic there were just good businessmen that ran into mobsters because they were Italian and had a business on the Italian West-side. There are many people who deny the Todaro's (especially Joe Jr.) were ever part of Cosa Nostra-because it has never been proven.

Well, no, that's not my logic at all.
The feds directly said Joe Todaro Sr. and Jr. were the boss and underboss of the Buffalo mob, aka the Todaro crime family, and were involved in murder, loansharking, gambling, etc. Some mobsters have never been convicted of crimes, but we know they are mobsters because there is evidence that they are mobsters.
Ciminelli was never linked to any sort of mob ties since his union days. Remember that until the mid-to-late 90s, the mob dominated Local 210, and Local 210 dominated the construction scene. If a guy was a bigwig construction exec in the 80s and 90s, there is a distinct likelihood he was associated with OC. I'd be more surprised if there were no construction execs today with ties to the mob in the 80s and 90s.

Guys like Ciminelli were pretty much forced to do business with the mob in the 80s and 90s. We can't really assume that everything guys like Ciminelli do today is a reflection of their mob connections.

My conversation with William Iannaconne they definitely used to and very well may still today. He certainly thinks so and thinks that is why 210 was never really cleaned up. ...And if 210 was never really rid of mafia influence, Louis Ciminelli at some point was a crime family associate--just like his Dad (according to Fino), then is it a stretch to think the Ciminelli scandal could be tied to the mob? After all Peter and Sam Capitano are still in leadership at 210 like they were in the mid to late 90's.

The Peter Capitano in charge is not the one that Joe Todaro said he trusted. That is his father I think. Peter Jr. and Sam Capitano have not being implicated in the mob, but Peter Sr. was one of Joe Todaro's favorite guys.

""Local 210 is now an aggressive but clean union that works hard to represent its members, according to Hill and James C. Logan, who represents 25 area contractors as executive vice president of the Construction Industry Employers Association. Both described Capitano, 46, as a tough but honest labor leader. Two other local contractors reached out to The News to speak in favor of Capitano.""
""Retired FBI Special Agent John "Jack" McDonnell said he believes the government cleanup of Local 210 and the Laborers - with Fino's help - was a major success. From 2000 until 2006, McDonnell oversaw all of Local 210's operations as a court-appointed liaison officer to the local.
"I know that Ron Fino supplied interesting and accurate information about how unions worked and how organized crime infiltrated Local 210," McDonnell said. "As for Sam Capitano, he was a very active, very vocal union guy who did fight against the takeover. He's an old-style, combative guy, but I have no information that he is involved with the mob."""

""Fino pointed out that, in the 1990s, Sam Capitano, the current business manager of Local 210, was an outspoken critic of efforts to remove mob influences from the Buffalo local.
In March 1995, then serving as a Local 210 steward, Capitano repeatedly told The News the federal government was greatly exaggerating the influence of mobsters on the local. He was a vocal leader of a group that filed a lawsuit, claiming there was absolutely no mob influence on Local 210 and no need for a cleanup.
Yet speaking to The News on Sept. 14 this year, Capitano said he is now convinced that the government takeover was needed and was successful in removing mob influences from the Laborers' leadership.
"We weren't against the reforms. We were against the way the trusteeship was put on us," Capitano said. "The reform plan that was put in place prevents [organized crime] from having any influence in our union...I feel these changes were good and necessary."""

I don't think Ciminelli could be tied to the Buffalo mob today because I don't believe there IS a functioning Buffalo mob today.

Nick;

I was just reading all the back and forth.

I am the newest guy on here with the least experience so don't know how much my opinion can help.

This is my take.

I find it very very hard to believe that Giacomo, Rooster and now Nickel City all while they do not agree on everything
they agree that there is an active family

That these 3 guys would all be lying...

I do not understand what they would be getting out of lying
???

Especially because you some how have access to info that the average poster does not.


So my point is if they are lying that more than likely you can find a way to call them out on it.

Besides all the above do I think it is POSSIBLE that we can find out that the old gang was a little more intact then previously thought of.

One of the posts I read that guy Merotta tried to revive the family however, was unsuccessful maybe he tried again after MAYBE... That was an example of how maybe it was dead at one point and they tried to revive it.

Maybe after they tried once and failed the FBI wrote them off and was looking to see that they TRIED AGAIN.

I don't know if you look at the posts from Philly, I know it has nothing to do with this post, however, I wanted to point out that we found out yesterday that a whole crew transferred from the Lucheese to the PHL family a few years back...

We didn't know now we know..

There all types of shit going on that we don't know about.

I still get your point that you are a man of facts and the facts that can be verified today support your opinion that the family is dead.

I also think that this is an official "STALE MATE" and that this will just keep going round and round and round.

There are far more people that say the family is dead, than people that say the family is alive. Why would 3 people lie? Good question. Maybe they're not lying, but they've received bad info. But here are your options Bensonhurst:

FIRST OPTION:
Buffalo federal prosecutors Lee Coppola and Frank Clark, due to their long careers in LE and knowledge, know that the family is defunct now.
Buffalo FBI agents, like longtime organized crime agent Andrew Goralski, due to working full-time on investigating the Buffalo mob, know that the family is no longer active and, despite efforts to get more funding, have had to declare the family is dead.
High profile Buffalo and Niagara Falls journalists like Mike Hudson and Dan Herbeck, despite the fact that a mob story would be a great read and good for their careers, have had to concede the family is dead because it would be too much of a stretch to try and claim it is still active.

These 3 internet "nobodies" (I don't mean offense when I say nobodies, but that's what all of us on the forums are, pretty much) are telling lies, or have received bad information. People have told lies on mob forums for years, I guess because they like to pretend they are in the know and pretend they are street guys. Bear in mind that, whilst Giacomo has been nice and respectful this whole time to me, he admitted to lying about stuff on the Black Hand forum.

SECOND OPTION:
These 3 internet posters are actually far more in the know then I think. Bear in mind that all three of these guys have different stories, so actually only one of these guys could potentially be telling the truth.

This means that federal prosecutors are lying about the existence of the Buffalo mob. This is despite the fact that (according to Rooster) they are actively investigating the Buffalo mob. So, whilst they are making a case against Buffalo mobsters, they are simultaneously disputing its existence. This can only hurt their case and affect their prosecution. But hey, maybe they're just really, really, really bad prosecutors and that's the explanation for their lying.
This also means that FBI agents are lying about the existence of the Mafia, despite the fact that for the FBI to continue maintaining/increasing funding for a designated organized crime squad, they would need to describe the Mafia's threat to the community. But hey, maybe all these FBI agents really hate their job as organized crime fighters and want to get laid off by Washington and that's the explanation for their lying...
This also means that the Buffalo News' top mob reporter, Dan Herbeck, and the Niagara Falls Reporter's top mob reporter, Mike Hudson, are also lying about the existence of the Mafia, despite the fact that their mafia stories have always been very successful and everybody loves a good mafia story.
This also means that top mob expert Scott Deitche, who has a tried-and-true track record, is also lying about the existence of the Buffalo mob for some reason.
This also means that Ron Fino is lying about the Buffalo mob's existence for some reason.

So Bensonhurst, at a first glance it might seem hard to believe that 3 guys on a mob forum could be lying (remember that these 3 guys are all telling different stories...). But your choice of who to trust is between 3 internet forum posters who can't agree on the truth between themselves VS. an FBI organized crime squad, federal and district prosecutors, a proven mob expert, news reporters, and a Buffalo mob informer.


I have at least called Rooster out on it, and he still hasn't replied to all of my questions. However he says he will answer the questions, so I'm waiting on him.


Possible, but extremely, extremely, unlikely. That's why I am asking the questions I am asking. I don't claim to have street knowledge of Buffalo.


Revive was maybe an overstatement. The family was weakened, sure, but wasn't quite dead. Marotta tried to bring it back and make it more powerful, which is what every boss tries to do. But it failed for reasons far beyond his control. By 2002 the family was "kind of" active, according to that same article, and it has since died.


All it takes is one loanshark client pushed too far, one indebted bookmaker, one extorted victim, one drug dealer facing life, one lead in a murder, one member to flip, for a family to come onto the radar for the cops. It is damn near impossible for an organized group of criminals to, in the 21st century, not come onto law enforcement's radar for over 15 years. It is possible for a family to avoid a high number of convictions, and avoid a high number of arrests, but it is very unlikely that a family with an organized crime FBI squad on their backs to be able to convince everyone they are defunct.


True. But the existance of an entire mob family controlling gambling, loansharking, and unions is something that is far too difficult to keep a secret for 15 years, especially when (as Rooster has claimed), the family doesn't try to lay too low (Rooster says many in the community know about OC ties).



Maybe. But I am asking questions to assess the validity of these guys' statements. Can you fault me for that? Isn't that what the forums are for?

Scratching my head. Phil passed away in 97', Ricky took off for Pittsburgh. Tony Pietra might be who you are thinking of, but most likely it is Ben Manning, as Pietra was on Pieri side and not the Todaros. 2005, I really can't think of any event, unless it was related to Gingello and Marotta which was a few years earlier than that.

Nicky, I take no offense, to that option you listed above, but I do know people in the life in Oneida, Monroe, Niagara, and Erie county (Oneida and Niagara mostly).

Question 4. I can only speak of Niagara and Oneida counties as those are very corrupt in law enforcement, while Buffalo and Rochester, you give a patrolman a few c notes a week, and they won't hassle your gambling or bookmaking operations. Thousands more and you have an inside source. Niagara county was brought up as being very corrupt and that is true.

Thank you for understanding my point. You might know people, sure, but you can understand why one would take the word of a federal prosecutor over you or any other internet poster.



But are they corrupt enough to the point where there can be an entire family under their nose and nobody knows about it? Or better yet, they actively deny it? I dont think that scale of corruption takes place anywhere in America anymore, at least not for the mafia.

That is pretty funny on San Jose, CA, but Figlia disbanded that family in 1995.

Niagara Falls and Utica, yes. Niagara and Oneida counties are extremely corrupt.

and heres his bust

http://www.niagara-gazette.com/news...07ee8a0-efb9-51c9-9ba8-49fdcccd47d6.html

http://buffalonews.com/2002/05/17/14-arrested-in-rackets-probe-of-laborers-local-91/

No more union corruption Nicky, just a bunch of if Italians baking cookies and playing golf

I take it you don't buy Iannaccone's thoughts? Do some research about the level of Fed involvement with the Buffalo Mob... It is the whole reason the NYState OC Taskforce was developed. Buffalo crime reporter Matt Gyrta corroborates in his book The Real Teflon Don with George Karalys (sp??).

Gangsters Inc. indicates a Todaro Crime Family Soldier named Massimigliano Carfagna of Hamilton was sentenced to 10 1/2 years for cocaine and heroin/fentanyl trafficking. Their source is a recent Toronto Star article. It seems Carfagna’s arrest was part of the 3 1/2 year OTremens operation that layer saw the arrest of Giuseppe "Joe" Violi who is alleged to be the underboss of the Buffalo Crime family according to unsubstantiated reports.

For those who are not aware, OTremens is the operation where a “made member” of the Bonanno La Cosa Nostra family of New York City agreed to turn police agent and work undercover in southwestern Ontario."

The Toronto Star suggests Carfagna was a member of the Buffalo Crime Family during the Todaro reign. (Todaro was the last known and longtime Buffalo Boss of the Magaddino Empire which included Ontario Canada.) The article states that Massimigliano was arrested numerous times in the Untied States-specifically Niagara Falls. These arrests date back to 1987 and include charges for criminal impersonation and negligent homicide.

In what I assume is a plea agreement for less time Carfagna has incriminated the Violi brothers in this trafficking scheme. The Star writes:



The Big Question: Is the Buffalo Crime Family Alive & Active or has it been absorbed by Luppino/Papillia families of the Canadian 'Ndrangheta because that is where the real power is?

Another Questions: Why do Canadian papers consistently tie the Violi brothers and other individuals to the "Todaro crime family" instead just naming their Canadian family?

My opinion: There must have been a strong connection to the Todaros and Buffalo. To me this suggests the Todaros were heavily involved with the Canadian operations of their family, which leads me to believe they were a much stronger family than the Feds thought in the 90's/2000's. From what I've read in Buffalo newspapers the Feds claimed that Todaro Sr. would not allow his people to get involved with the drug trade. ...Given the information coming out now, It looks like they got it all wrong. It, also, makes me wonder if they were wrong in last year's claim in the Buffalo News that the "Mafia in WNY is all but dead."

Im still pretty adamant about the 2005 bust but cant find it, Ill concede to not being able to find it Nicky if youd like or ill keep searching.

And i basically just answered all your questions.


Dont forget about the bust last year, remember, ya know, where members of the Todaro crime family were arrested. Again, lets wait and see when the Violi trial unravels. But let me guess, all these busts are just a coincidence to you and nothing to prove a viable family?

There was a bust in 09 at local 91 too

Good connection Nickel

@ Nicky I dont specifically remember actually saying shut up...what im saying is everyone has a right to say what they want and both our evidence refutes the other. I think journalists assertion of demise was greatly exaggerated and past law enforcement that had their words published didnt know the whole story or the ability to continue on as a crime family even after being weakened.

Nick,

I agree corruption on that scale today is really un heard of.

My opinion is that there are too many checks and balances in place.

With that said in Detroit it appears that some how they have paid the right people because for the most part the family as whole has not been touched.

Hence PART of the reason they haven't had many guys flip.

You had that one case and guy NOVE got 14 years and flipped.

Even when Tocco did get convicted they gave him no time.
Yes that was a whole ago.

More recently you had the Sicilian brothers that State again gave almost no time
So the feds picked up a case against them.

Something going on in Detroit that defies logic and common sense.

This is the reason why it is very hard for me to say something is IMPOSSIBLE

Nickel,

Pertaining to your post Nicky, isn't denying anytjing about the Violo's
He isn't disagreeing that they were Buffalo, LCN
I think he agrees that they still are considered today Buffalo LCN5

He is saying they are out there representing themselves today rather than Buffalo LCN.

That yea clearly the Violo's are moving heavy weight
But there is no evidence to support that the Violo's or that matter any Buffalo LCN are operating as a family.

That he is right about.
There is no evidence

Meaning there are no wire taps as of today where you have any one from Buffalo referring to a boss, Passing money up etc.

Rooster there has to be a way to find the RCMP indictment or what ever Canada's term is.

I thi k if we can get that we might be able to put this to rest.

I don't know how good any of you guys are with this or if it's worth the time.

I but I think anyone can write a letter to the FBI and get copies of files under the Freedom of information act.

I am sure the FBI has a file on the Violi brothers even though thy are in Canada
Just a thought

If anyone has time feel free

I know youre reading these posts Rooster ~Nicky from Tampa

Rooster just ghosted ~Nicky from Tampa


I know youre reading these posts Nicky from Tampa ~Rooster

Nicky from Tampa just ghosted ~Rooster