So all of the articles confirming the family is dead are allowed to be shredded apart by Rooster and Nickle, but the moment I question their validity (like the validity of YOU), you get all up and arms? Again, there needs to be a double standard. If Lee Coppola is a liar for calling the Buffalo mob "penniless," what does that make you?


What? I'm on the Black Hand. I can read the thread... Nobody was crapping their pants, my friend, so your sources are off, just like the "sources" that told you Tony Mirra was out doing hits when he was in prison and out in big mob meetings. Just like your sources that told you Zirpoli was whacked in the Bonanno War. A lot more where that came from.


Thanks for monitoring my posts. I don't see what it proves.


Yes, I was waiting for this thread because I am part of the grand conspiracy to deny the existence of the Buffalo mob. Actually, I am on the payroll of Domenico Violi, who is paying me thousands to try and discredit any notion that he's in the Buffalo mob. You got me, the jig is up. I'm moving to South America tomorrow to go into hiding. Good investigative work, Giacomo.


Keep rambling buddy. I'm sure you've got a point somewhere in that mess.
The fact of the matter is, you were outed for lying and you admitted to lying. You lied for no apparent reason, other than to pretend you were in the know. Am I wrong?


Actually, my argument is not that they take in two-bit hoods. My argument is that they aren't taking in anyone. My argument is that there is no structure. No hierarchy. No active governance of the family. My argument is backed up by law enforcement, DAs, fed prosecutors, proven mob experts, and investigative journalists. Your argument is based off your sketchy track record of lying.



Bensonhurst has not been open-minded from the get-go. Straight away he began offering wild theories as to how the family was able to survive and rebuild. He was quick to discredit every single one of the many people who say the family is not active. When I asked him about Rooster's imaginary sources, he claimed he didn't want to get involved with challenging Rooster's sources. He keeps trying to reach a "middle ground" to resolve the argument, but each of his "compromises" has him arguing the family is still active.

Nicky my man, I don't know where you find the energy to keep this shit going with these people..

Neither...

The reason I ask for Rooster and Co. to specifically "quote" my comments when they reply is because some of them ignore parts of my posts, like when I constantly call Rooster out for commeding pmac's wrongful post. That sort of thing. So guys: If you're going to reply, "quote" my posts.

Billy ...you accused me of nonsense earlier in this thread. I asked you what I said that was nonsensical and you never responded. I would still like an answer, please. BTW have you even read the whole thread or are you just commenting without knowledge of what has been said?

@Nicky, You mentioned you didn’t remember seeing the Hamilton Papalia crew in the 2006 FBI chart earlier in this thread. When did you see that chart and where. I can’t find it anywhere and am beginning to wonder if it existed. You say the Niagara Falls Reporter referenced it? Can you give me a title and a date for that article? Maybe that info will help me track it down. Thank you!

How long does it take the FBI to respond to Freedom of Imformation Request and produce the document?

Just because he saw the logic of a point of view different from you own, you label him “not-open minded”? I guess you are allowed that opinion, but it seems rather illogical and thus unfair to me. If you remember, Benson has been open to both sides. At one point in this tread he mentioned your articles indicating something to the affect that he didn’t think we could refute these sources but would be open, then when we started with our info, he said something to the affect that he would do his own independence research and get back to us. Sounds pretty dang open-minded to me.

And this gets me to my gripe I’ve mentioned before... why people like you so dang self-righteous about your views that if anyone disagrees about Buffalo they are not open-minded and are some sort of mindless nubs... Very insulting. That is why we don’t drop it. We are sick of this!! I am!

So, please tell me what kind of mind numb idiot I am ... and I’ll be sure to drool with my tongue sticking out of my mouth and put an absent look on my face as I read your comment. Then I will take a selfie, post it on this board, so you can say see... this is what the guys who believe Buffalo are active are like. You will have a picture to prove you are right!

Nickle, you've been here for all of three weeks and you've already managed to be a disruptive force on these boards. Stop with the infighting garbage now. That stuff might go over on your other board but leave it there. We all want to have fun here, not fighting.

@SC are you talking to me?

If you read this whole thread I have been very cordial and try to ge to people to play nice. This is my first rude and frustrated comment... There are plenty of rude ones on this thread alone. Please show me where I have been disruptive? I usually try to mediate between Rooster, Giacomo, and Nicky. So again show me where I have been disruptive and I will apologize. I apologize for the above comment, but I wonder why me sticking up for Bensonhurst is so wrong? Nicky is the one who called him not open-minded. And he clearly is open minded. I was only being rude, because I felt it was rude and unfair to accuse Bensonhurst of this, given his open mindedness in this thread.

&Nicky, I apologize for the previous post. I stuck up for you too, when I thought people on?were being unfair or rude to you as well. I did go to far in the previous post, but I am tired of the double standard where everyone who believes Buffalo is dead can say anything demeaning those who believe Buffalo is active as, argumentative, spammers, who keep the tread going too long, are dumb and closed-minded, but yet celebrate your tenaciousness as the guardian of truth, when you’ve kept the tread going and had some girly rude things to say too. Finally, I think it is interesting people come in with 1 line pop shots at Rooster, Giacomo, and now me, and then leave.. but never you. What is the one thing the 3 of us have in common? We think Buffalo is active.

Nicky, if you believe I’ve been disruptive and haven’t added to this conversation I will delete my posts and leave the board. Again, I am sorry. Update: ...I am a nub... can’t delete my old posts...

The reason I don't think the Canadian crew is on that chart is because the reporter who referenced the chart said the Canadian crew was "as dead as charity." This was in response to Rooster claiming that the 2006 chart showed the Canadian crew. Again, let's have a double standard here. Rooster said the crew was on the chart (the chart he hasn't seen), and I said the Canadian crew is not on the chart because the reporter, Mike Hudson, said the Canadian crew was dead since 1997 and he seems to be the only one to have seen the chart.
http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2012/Sep18/Hudson.html
http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2013/Jan8/TodaroNicoletti.html


Read my post again. I outlined the reasons why Bensonhurst has not been open-minded, and it's not simply because he doesn't agree with me. I'll outline it again because you chose to ignore me. Bensonhurst has immediately started by offering wild theories as to why the family is alive. He was quick to discredit every single one of the many people who say the family is not active. When I asked him about Rooster's imaginary sources, he claimed he didn't want to get involved with challenging Rooster's sources. He keeps trying to reach a "middle ground" to resolve the argument, but each of his "compromises" has him arguing the family is still active.


I remember bigfella said that, but I don't remember Bensonhurst saying that.
And by the way - what info have you guys presented that the family is still active? Remind me, because all of the articles you guys seem to have posted revolve around proving minute points about the Capitano Bros. or referencing a Musitano connection to the Papalia crew, which didn't indicate whether said crew was active or not.


I'm sick of the misinformation that Rooster spreads regarding his information. He says information as if it is pure fact. He does not differentiate street information with proven information. He actually had me believing that Brian Cohen was once a Nicoletti associate, but I later googled it and found ZERO info backing that up at all. It's the same tactic Giacomo uses, and is why people hang on to Giacomo's words even though he's a proven liar.



If you believe that the Buffalo crime family is active, and the sole reason for you believing so is that you honestly believe Rooster's imaginary beat cops are more trustworthy than the feds, DAs, federal prosecutors, proven mob experts, and investigative journalists, than yes... there is something seriously, seriously wrong with your train of thought. If you don't view the feds as trustworthy, fine, but don't try and say that Rooster is some sort of accurate insider. The feds have a great track record and far better conviction rates than state and city cops (to the best of my knowledge). Rooster, on the other hand, has no proven track record whatsoever. Nothing. Nada.


You've been actively trying to prove the Buffalo crime family is still active, whilst I am giving information to the contrary. You are on one side of the argument, I am on another. So no, you're not trying to mediate. You might be being more receptive to my arguments when compared to Rooster, and for that I am grateful, but there's no way in hell you're doing anything except trying to convince people the family is active.


Open-minded... He's not from Buffalo and himself admits he doesn't know too much about what's going on there, but yet he is still offering wild theories as to why the family is still active, trying his utmost to refute my sources, agreeing with no-evidence Rooster, and simultaneously refusing to challenge Rooster's sources. Open-minded huh.


I, at least, am always trying to offer a constructive, backed-with-evidence arguments. There have been distinct periods in this thread where me and you or me and Bensonhurst have properly discussed the family's activity, and Rooster spends his time dropping 'girly' one-liners about me with personal insults (despite the fact he doesn't know me personally at all). Again, there's gotta be a double standard here.


I really don't think there isn't much to this argument now. Maybe in the future, when more information comes to light, we can post it here and discuss. But for now it comes down to what people WANT to people. Do they want to believe the FBI? Yes or no. Do they want to believe a proven and exposed liar (Giacomo)? Yes or no. Do they want to believe area investigative journalists? Yes or no. Do they want to believe a man who himself claims his sources are corrupt (Rooster)? Yes or no. It's exciting for people to hear that the Mafia in select cities is not only still alive, but thriving. People want to believe in grand conspiracies to prove the government, law enforcement and journalists are wrong.

If news comes out, if Violi goes to trial, if more articles come out, then we can discuss. I would like to now leave you with excerpts that Wiseguy on BH have noted:
"Once boasting 26 families nationwide, the mob is down to 11, half of those confined to the New York area. Moreover, the Mafia's influence still extends far beyond New York. There remain active families in Chicago, Detroit, New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Miami." (US News & World Report, 2000)
I count ten families there. Plus Miami, which is obviously open territory for all five families. But it's important to note that in 2000, the year of the report, the Trafficante family's Miami crew was busted, which could potentially be the eleventh family they are referring to.
Notice how Rooster didn't think I could compare Buffalo with the Trafficantes - "apples and oranges," he said. I don't know his reasoning behind that theory but I'd like to hear it.

"Within the LCN there are five principal crime families. Most members of the LCN operate in the New York metropolitan area, but there are also criminal operations in Boston, Chicago, Newark, Detroit, Philadelphia, and Miami." (US Congressional Report, 2010)
Nothing's changed now, but the Trafficantes are 100% dead by then.

The LCN is most active in the New York metropolitan area, parts of New Jersey, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, and New England. The major LCN families include the five New York-based families—Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese; the Newark-based DeCavalcante family; the New England LCN; the Philadelphia LCN; and the Chicago Outfit. They have members in other major cities and are involved in international crimes. (FBI website)
The FBI's website now rules the Detroit LCN as dead, which could very well be true considering the debatable state of things there. Scott B seemed to be the only person claiming the family was actually "powerful" there.

It's funny how all these senior members of the forums come to bud in on this debate, when it's for the most part a decent one, and not a sh@t show. These guys are helping to keep this site alive and provide an entertaining back and forth debate. I agree there's a little hostility that should be laid off on but it's really not out of control. Why don't you guys put some input on the discussion Instead of just criticizing other members for having a good discussion.

Watch me get a week ban for this or something.

@Nicky you are right, “There is something seriously wrong with my train of thought.” My logic was no logic at all. As Billy said I wake nonsensical. I am, also, disruptive SC puts it. The senior members of this board seem to be in agreeing that I am a brainless nub. I realize they are right. I had no good input. I am completely out of my league. I apologize wholeheartedly for wasting the time and of so many outstanding mob experts and taking up valuable space in this thread, indeed the entire board. This will be my last post. Again to the admins and senior mebers I have bothered so greatly. I am sorry. I will delete all my nonsensical post... and leave this one where I finally came to my senses.

If this is your last post, so be it, but you (again) are not reading my post or are taking it out of context. You claim to have inside knowledge. There is no way of possibly knowing whether that's true unless you are either proven right or wrong. I am saying that when people "believe that the Buffalo crime family is active, and the sole reason for you believing so is that you honestly believe Rooster's imaginary beat cops are more trustworthy than the feds, DAs, federal prosecutors, proven mob experts, and investigative journalists, than yes... there is something seriously, seriously wrong with your train of thought." - See?

It's been an incredibly fun and insightful debate and I know a lot more about Buffalo than I used to. But I agree on the hostility front. A lot of it is my fault, but you gotta understand who started the hostility and has continued it ever since (Rooster).

Nickle - Thank you for offering good articles, good knowledge, and good insight. Of course we do have to agree to disagree on this one but, as much as you probably feel like I didn't, I really did listen to you and learn a lot from you. Can't say the same about Rooster and Giacomo, but eh.
Bensonhurst - Thank you for offering a different perspective, even though it seems your mind was set from the get-go...

Good job Nicky qnd yet you still lost the argument based on you thinking people are liars. Feel bad for you, a lot of people Im sure do. And thats awesome Tampa is active, but again apples and oranges.Youll understand what that saying means some day. But until then, eh.

Jesus Christ, here we go again:
To all newcomers to this forum, don't be deceived. Rooster hasn't won the argument. If he had won the argument, the argument would be over. It's not.
Rooster, actually explain how you won the argument. Before you claimed to have "torn apart" the articles I presented, but you didn't. Any time you have questioned my sources, I have issued a response. Explain to me in detail how you won this argument.



Again, Rooster shows a complete lack of comprehension when reading my post. Rooster. Read the post again carefully. The Trafficante crime family was still a viable family after the Buffalo mob had died. But now they are both dead.
Apples and oranges? How is the Buffalo mob and the Tampa mob apples and oranges? They're both Mafia families that are now deceased. Yes they are different families in different locations, but the same principles are there.

so the winner is Nicky by default!

The reason I don't think the Canadian crew is on that chart is because the reporter who referenced the chart said the Canadian crew was "as dead as charity." This was in response to Rooster claiming that the 2006 chart showed the Canadian crew. Again, let's have a double standard here. Rooster said the crew was on the chart (the chart he hasn't seen), and I said the Canadian crew is not on the chart because the reporter, Mike Hudson, said the Canadian crew was dead since 1997 and he seems to be the only one to have seen the chart.
http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2012/Sep18/Hudson.html
http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2013/Jan8/TodaroNicoletti.html


Read my post again. I outlined the reasons why Bensonhurst has not been open-minded, and it's not simply because he doesn't agree with me. I'll outline it again because you chose to ignore me. Bensonhurst has immediately started by offering wild theories as to why the family is alive. He was quick to discredit every single one of the many people who say the family is not active. When I asked him about Rooster's imaginary sources, he claimed he didn't want to get involved with challenging Rooster's sources. He keeps trying to reach a "middle ground" to resolve the argument, but each of his "compromises" has him arguing the family is still active.


I remember bigfella said that, but I don't remember Bensonhurst saying that.
And by the way - what info have you guys presented that the family is still active? Remind me, because all of the articles you guys seem to have posted revolve around proving minute points about the Capitano Bros. or referencing a Musitano connection to the Papalia crew, which didn't indicate whether said crew was active or not.


I'm sick of the misinformation that Rooster spreads regarding his information. He says information as if it is pure fact. He does not differentiate street information with proven information. He actually had me believing that Brian Cohen was once a Nicoletti associate, but I later googled it and found ZERO info backing that up at all. It's the same tactic Giacomo uses, and is why people hang on to Giacomo's words even though he's a proven liar.



If you believe that the Buffalo crime family is active, and the sole reason for you believing so is that you honestly believe Rooster's imaginary beat cops are more trustworthy than the feds, DAs, federal prosecutors, proven mob experts, and investigative journalists, than yes... there is something seriously, seriously wrong with your train of thought. If you don't view the feds as trustworthy, fine, but don't try and say that Rooster is some sort of accurate insider. The feds have a great track record and far better conviction rates than state and city cops (to the best of my knowledge). Rooster, on the other hand, has no proven track record whatsoever. Nothing. Nada.


You've been actively trying to prove the Buffalo crime family is still active, whilst I am giving information to the contrary. You are on one side of the argument, I am on another. So no, you're not trying to mediate. You might be being more receptive to my arguments when compared to Rooster, and for that I am grateful, but there's no way in hell you're doing anything except trying to convince people the family is active.


Open-minded... He's not from Buffalo and himself admits he doesn't know too much about what's going on there, but yet he is still offering wild theories as to why the family is still active, trying his utmost to refute my sources, agreeing with no-evidence Rooster, and simultaneously refusing to challenge Rooster's sources. Open-minded huh.


I, at least, am always trying to offer a constructive, backed-with-evidence arguments. There have been distinct periods in this thread where me and you or me and Bensonhurst have properly discussed the family's activity, and Rooster spends his time dropping 'girly' one-liners about me with personal insults (despite the fact he doesn't know me personally at all). Again, there's gotta be a double standard here.


I really don't think there isn't much to this argument now. Maybe in the future, when more information comes to light, we can post it here and discuss. But for now it comes down to what people WANT to people. Do they want to believe the FBI? Yes or no. Do they want to believe a proven and exposed liar (Giacomo)? Yes or no. Do they want to believe area investigative journalists? Yes or no. Do they want to believe a man who himself claims his sources are corrupt (Rooster)? Yes or no. It's exciting for people to hear that the Mafia in select cities is not only still alive, but thriving. People want to believe in grand conspiracies to prove the government, law enforcement and journalists are wrong.

If news comes out, if Violi goes to trial, if more articles come out, then we can discuss. I would like to now leave you with excerpts that Wiseguy on BH have noted:
"Once boasting 26 families nationwide, the mob is down to 11, half of those confined to the New York area. Moreover, the Mafia's influence still extends far beyond New York. There remain active families in Chicago, Detroit, New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Miami." (US News & World Report, 2000)
I count ten families there. Plus Miami, which is obviously open territory for all five families. But it's important to note that in 2000, the year of the report, the Trafficante family's Miami crew was busted, which could potentially be the eleventh family they are referring to.
Notice how Rooster didn't think I could compare Buffalo with the Trafficantes - "apples and oranges," he said. I don't know his reasoning behind that theory but I'd like to hear it.

"Within the LCN there are five principal crime families. Most members of the LCN operate in the New York metropolitan area, but there are also criminal operations in Boston, Chicago, Newark, Detroit, Philadelphia, and Miami." (US Congressional Report, 2010)
Nothing's changed now, but the Trafficantes are 100% dead by then.

The LCN is most active in the New York metropolitan area, parts of New Jersey, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, and New England. The major LCN families include the five New York-based families—Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese; the Newark-based DeCavalcante family; the New England LCN; the Philadelphia LCN; and the Chicago Outfit. They have members in other major cities and are involved in international crimes. (FBI website)
The FBI's website now rules the Detroit LCN as dead, which could very well be true considering the debatable state of things there. Scott B seemed to be the only person claiming the family was actually "powerful" there.[/quote


he smashed the rooster

buffalino area in scranton pa rite. breaking news bertuccis going bankrupt not bad food for a chain. back to scranton besides dunder mifflin ive read john gotti sr and his brothers who i think live out there is it richie theres a few gotti out that way. didnt sr. own a ranch out that way . and a guy iggy ag.......... its a 2 hr drive to nyc theres people out there i dont no if there made guys from buffalinos days. he was pretty powerfull the genovese would work heavy with him in the early part of 70tys. good book on him and tons of merry fereell shit. his family was tiny im guessing 20 guys at the peak tons of assciates. here they come to snuff the rooster yayayay. respect everyones opion or post unless wayoff.

i take it the big guy who fliped is probaly doing all the shit he did before working with the fbi d'elia

i wanna go to the poconos sick of new england upsate ny was last summer that place was nice up past lake george some huge gorge. they call it the grand canyon past the missipippi. almost near the ca border. wwooo.

Cheers Jeremy. It comes to down to evidence & logic vs. no evidence and no logic.

Nickle and Rooster, you hear about Papa John's up there is Buffalo? Maybe Joe Jr, made them an offer they couldn't refuse? No it is just Joe's pizzas are better quality and satisfying.

Yea I guess Vincent Loscalzo is the new boss of the Papa Johns family on the Gulf Coast too

notice how they revert to lame jokes when they have nothing left to argue bc there whole argument was just as bad as the song he named himself after

Everyones already exhausted their input and now you come in to pick apart a carcass like a vulture. Only thing lame is your timing and intent

Now tell us about the Jews Jeremy

Good point. He's been hassling me for one post I made pages and pages ago - that's what his argument is based around. It's the mark of a bad poster to bring up some completely unrelated topic instead of the argument at hand. I asked him why he kept hanging on to the Vincent LoScalzo and whether that helped his argument in any way and he said:
"Because its apples and oranges and to bring guys like Loscalzo and Delia into the same comparison as modern day Buffalo is ridiculous in my opinion."
So... why do you keep making lame LoScalzo jokes? Still not answering the question AT ALL. I ask why he brings up LoScalzo and is always reverting back to same LoScalzo jokes and this is his answer. He's great at dodging questions, he'd make a great politician.