Yes, Bensonhurst. To the best of my knowledge, they were not part of the feds' final 2006 chart for the family, and they have been numerously named as Luppino crime group members.
I don't go around assuming random mobsters with TIES to Buffalo are Todaro crime family members.


The crime group that media and LE has been SAYING they are a part of: The Luppino crime group.


Go back a couple pages and find out for yourself.


Why the fuck would I assume that Humphrey was talking about the Violis when he didn't mention their name once in that paragraph. Stop connecting dots that aren't there. If the Violis were Todaro crime family members, they would be labelled as such in the DOZENS upon DOZENS of articles about them.


More incoherent rambling. Again, if the Violis were Buffalo family members then LE or media, by now, would have labelled them as such at least once down the line. Just because the name Buffalo occurs in the same article as the name Violi does not automatically mean a connection.


As Nickle pointed out earlier, Violi was specifically labelled as the heir apparent to the LUPPINO CRIME GROUP. And, by the way, the RCMP never released an official indictment on their website. So all Humphrey had to (immediately) go on was the U.S. Justice Department's release, which noted that members of the Todaro crime family were arrested and charged with drug trafficking.


I direct you to my Justice Department comment.


That's a good question which none of us here know the answers to yet.

I find it interesting the 2006 chart that you are found of referring to did not have any of these 9 individuals on it. Logically, that leaves one of two possibilities:

1. The chart was wrong and there were additional soldiers the Feds did not know about.
--If true, the family would have been stronger than the chart suggested.
--If true, the Violi brothers could have been made in the Buffalo family but not listed in the 2006 chart.
2. The Buffalo family made members after 2006.
--If true, it indicates the family was stronger than the 2006 chart suggests.
--And/or the family has rebuilt and is stronger than the 2006 chart suggests.

Help me Nicky, am I wrong? Is there another possibility? If not, which of the two options do you choose?

Theres no use talking any rationale but youre right Nickle and Benson.

Someone in the arrest group is Buffalo Crime Family and if not the Feds are lying yet again. And logic would say its the Violis because they are the top tier of that group.

Here is some more information on Violi. I happened upon a Halton Police Intelligence Report on him. It proves nothing about his connection with Buffalo, but interesting since we are talking him. This is where the Canadian Paper got its information that Violi is the heir apparent to the Luppino Crime family. (See page 2).

Also, police in Hamilton area knew Violi had currupt police on the take since 2002. That is over 16 years!! But did nothing till this Halston Police Report was leaked a few months ago. Here is the CBC article: Violi Had Corrupt Police on The Take for 16 Years. Police knew but did nothing!!

I don't know who was actually on that chart, all I know is the numbers. If anybody can find that chart, it's go a lot way in this discussion.





Wait, Rooster's being logical? What sort of bizarro reality is this? This is a step-up from his usual form of strutting around like he won the argument ten pages ago, tearing apart any real points I make by saying "Look how mad he's getting," or arguing grammar about the term 'boss.'



This is what I was referring to earlier Nickle about how the Hamilton police knew about the Violis before 2002. But thank you for linking the full photos.

Wait a second, Nicky can keep rambling at the mouth for a whole other month?? Shocking. I won in the sense I made my points over and over, refuted yours, gave yoy answers, didnt allow everyone to to simply believe all your articles and still stayed true to every scenario I described since 2016 thread. So again, what dont you get about agreeing to disagree? Hello???? McFly

Answers that don't make any fucking sense. But sure, keep believing that LE is on a grand conspiracy to cover up the Buffalo mob but your imaginary self-professed corrupt beat cops are somehow in the know.

And no, you didn't "refute" my articles, apart from saying Coppola is a liar for calling the Buffalo mob in 1998 "penniless." One comment, taken out of context, in an entire article describing the mob's demise. That's enough for you to prove he's lying apparently.
Well, since you've got such a high standing of truth, why did you try and say the FBI didn't use the name "Todaro crime family" before 2017? Because that's a bald-faced lie. And why did you commend pmac on making a "good point" when he claimed the feds had called Violi the underboss, when that is also a bald-faced lie.
And why do you chose to believe Giacomo, when he was caught, and admitted to, lying about the murders that Tony Mirra committted. This is one of Giacomo's many confessed lies.


Wtf...
It's a case between believing:
Law enforcement, federal prosecutors, FBI, district attorneys, proven mob experts, investigative journalists
OR
Rooster, the admitted liar Giacomo, and NickleCity, none of whom we know anything about beyond their screen names.


So, in Rooster's world, staying true to one story somehow makes you right. No Rooster, it just means you're careful not to contradict your many lies.



It's not a case of agreeing to disagree. You state things as fact, even when they're just street talk that you cannot back up. You told Bensonhurst, regarding the existence of the Buffalo mob, "Yes, it's proven" when you know damn well that it hasn't been proven the mob is active in Buffalo today.
You intentionally mislead people, and I have called you out on it numerous times.

9 Arrested in Hamilton:

Charged on Thursday morning were:1) Domenico Paolo Violi, Hamilton;2) Dimitar Dimitrov, Stoney Creek; 3) Adriano Valentino Scolieri, Richmond Hill; 4) Bernardo Luke Rotolo, Woodbridge; 5) Tran Giang Tang, 6) Kam Tim Tong, both of Markham; 7) Nicholas Valentine, Vaughan; 8)Anthony James Arroyo, Waterloo; 9) James Lincoln Jablonski, Mississauga.

Here is a 2012 Buffalo Chart: BTW I know this is not the 2006 FBI Chart but is based off it... still looking for 2006 chart.



I don't see anyone on this chart listed in the Canadian Arrest records...

I believe this chart is the 2006 chart that just shows who is now deceased. If anyone can find the 2006 please share!

Canadian newspapers state that the arrests included members of the Todaro Crime Family based in Buffalo. My contention is there are two options as to why none of those arrested in Nov. 2017 are on this 2012 chart that is based on the FBI's 2006 chart:

1. The 2006/12 chart was wrong . It didn't include all the soldiers of the Buffalo Crime family, or...
2. The family was still strong enough to be making members after 2006 or even 2012.

Both would indicate there was more of a family than the Feds knew about. Nicky?

Also, the Violi are known to have ties to the Buffalo Crime Family thru the Luppino's who were made in the Buffalo Family. Doesn't this make them the one the papers are likely talking about? Especially since no one has heard of 1. Scolieri, 2. Rotolo, 3. Valentine or 4.Arroyo being connected to Buffalo. I at least have not heard of any connection between these four and the Todaro Family? Has anyone else?

Update on 2012 chart: Papalia chose to retire after his brother’s hit in 1997 according to the Canadian Brodcast Compnay (CBC News).

Frank died in 2014. Here is the link to the article: CBC article on Frank Papalia’s Life & Death

Nickel;

I don't see anyone on this chart listed in the Canadian Arrest records...


Canadian newspapers state that the arrests included members of the Todaro Crime Family based in Buffalo. My contention is there are two options as to why none of those arrested in Nov. 2017 are on this 2012 chart that is based on the FBI's 2006 chart:

1. The 2006/12 chart was wrong . It didn't include all the soldiers of the Buffalo Crime family, or...
2. The family was still strong enough to be making members after 2006 or even 2012.
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I agree 1000% percent

Nicky, will not answer this

The tuff ones he dances around and hurls girly insults, to deflect...

Any logical person after reading all that collectively we have posted about the 2017 arrests would conclude that all parties are linking the Violi's to the Todaro family.

Nicky, cannot logically explain why they would not have added somewhere that the Violi's are high ranking memebers and heir apparent of the Luppino crime family, instead they want to just list a crime family that they have no affiliation to and is defunct..

It just makes no sense..

He is all over the place first he was saying they listed the Todaro's because once made or affialiated with a crime family they always are, like in Tampa and New Orleans,
He then goes on to say that the Violi's have and never had any affialation to Buffalo.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hurls girly insults? Just read Rooster's posts for chrissakes. He started with the insults from the get-go.


I have responded to this before Bensonhurst. But, because you're clearly too ignorant to respond, I'll say it again.

The articles you have referenced mentioned the Canadian arrests, and the Violis names pop up because they are the most well known names in the indictment.
Then, later in the article, they use the information provided on the Justice Department's office and say "Members of the Todaro crime family were also arrested."
There is no link there between the Violis and the Buffalo crime family. All they are saying is that members of the Todaro crime family were arrested in the operation. They did not mention Violi as being one of those members. You wanna know why? Because the only information that we know is that the Justice Department said that members of the Todaro crime family were arrested in the same operation in which Violi was arrested.
They mention Violi. Later, they mention Buffalo. You're trying to connect dots which aren't there.
If the article were to say "Members of the Todaro crime family were also arrested, including Violi" - then you'd have something. But we don't. We have an article discussing the arrests of nine people including the Violis. Later in the article, they say "Members of the Todaro crime family were among those arrested," or words to that effect. Bensonhurst, for whatever reason you seem to really want the Buffalo crime family to exist. Which is why:
a) You keep connecting dots that aren't there.
b) You are very, very, very quick to call into question tangible evidence from the feds, law enforcement, DAs, federal prosecutors, proven mob experts, and investigative journalists. But you don't even consider that Rooster's imaginary beat cops might be fallible.
c) You've said clearly wrong things about the family in an attempt to back up your point, like how you don't think it's possible that a 100-man family could be dead by today. This can be chalked up to simply getting facts wrong, but then Rooster backed up your obviously wrong statement by saying "this is the best theory so far."


I say this because you don't seem to understand.
Buffalo follows the same making procedures as every other family. Once you are made, you are made for life. The reason I make the connection to New Orleans, Scranton, and Florida, is because what Rooster and others don't seem to understand is that when a family goes defunct, surviving members of that family are still "members for life." This is basic mafia knowledge. Don't act like it isn't relevant Bensonhurst.


Stop putting words in my mouth. There's no question their grandfather, who raised them after their father was murdered, was a Magaddino family captain. I have never denied this.

Why do I bother arguing with you Bensonhurst? You have your heart set on the fact that the family is still active, even though Rooster and Nickle have offered ZERO proof that it is still active. There is proof it's not active. If you choose not to believe the feds, district attorneys, federal prosecutors, proven mob experts like Scott Deitche, and organized crime investigative journalists, than I'm fine with that. But if you think Rooster is somehow a more reliable source than all of these people, even though we have no clue who he is or who his beat cop buddies are, then you're obviously a fucking moron. There's no two ways about it. I'm not saying the feds are infallible, but they are a hell of a lot more reliable than some internet poster with made-up beat cop buddies who didn't even know what the family was called until 2017.

Until we know exactly who was the Todaro crime family members talked about, there's no point speculating.
With that being said, I don't remember the feds in 2006 mentioning the Canada crew.

EDIT; By the way, I always try and make a point out of responding to someone's entire comment like I did with this one, so I don't miss anything. I'd like it if Rooster and Bensonhurst do the same so they don't keep missing things that I've been repeating this entire thread.

@Nicky...I am still looking for the original 2006 FBI chart so you can answer my questions. Below is a list of Buffalo made men from the 2006 FBI chart who were still alive in 2015. It was posted on Black Hand Forum posted by tmorrata:



(On a side note: He was wrong about where Bifulco and Falzone lived. BiFulco was and is in Buffalo majority of the time... Falzone was definitely in Buffalo full time before he passed, not Vegas. He had a regular breakfast spot of Delaware Ave. in Buffalo. But Pieri is in Vegas operating "Immaculate Carpets & Cleaning Services" with his son.)

@Nickyyou mentioned that you did not remember the Canadian Papilia Crew being listed on FBI 2006 chart when I posted the 2012 chart that was based off it ... This chart lists them too. Again I don't see any of the names of those arrested in Canada in November of 2017 on this list. Here is the list:



The papers in Canada definitely said the arrests included members of the "Todaro Crime Family." Now back to my logic and questions for you. Here they are below:



What say ye?

You can continue on and on and on and on until you are blue in the face. Your not believed 100% just deal with it. Ive thrown girly insults because you act like a girl.

I didnt contradict myself because there is nothing to contradict. I didnt go back and review every post in 2016 and make sure it corroborates, Im just simply not lying and not misleading anyone. Just because you say it doesnt mean its the truth, just like everyone else on here and what they post.

Giacomo may have admitted to lying but he knows a lot of random things that have happened.

Nickle and Benson bring you logic and you simply tell them it isnt logic based on inaccuracies and contradictions in articles YOU PROVIDE! and that theres nothing to connect...says who??? Nicky from Tampa?? Which means what dude?? A Nothing. A screen name??? Get it? No, ofcourse not, because you want what you say to be believed by everyone. Thats not life dude. Wake up and allow people to connect whatever dots they want and deal with it. I seriously think you have some mental issues to continue this a month later and tell everyone basically they are idiots time and time again for feeling a certain way on not only what I say or anyone else but what you give them in published articles.

We dont believe you or your articles, do you understand?? Get a life.

Good work Nickle, as weve gone over 100x, there is more than meets the eye, and a structure and viability.

Your logic is appreciated and understood from people who actually read books and understand the world.

I actually appreciate Nicky taking the time to respond to me and Bensonhurst... He has spurred me to do more digging and sharpen my arguments. For that @Nicky--Thank you! But I still don't believe Cosa Nostra in Buffalo is dead!!

Thank you! A lot of what you say matches what I've heard around the area.

Bifulco has a place on Delaware, hes not in Vegas full time or half time. And he use to have breakfast/lunch with a big mofu Hells Angel at Panos when it was open.

@Nicky... People do learn an that causes people to change some of what they think and believe over time. We call that growth. My opinions are constantly evolving as I learn more... That doesn't make me a liar, because I don't believe everything I used to think in 2016.

Yeah, I knew that part of the post wasn't completely right. I corrected Falzone, but couldn't remember Bifulco...

AGAIN Nicky, apples and oranges when trying to compare Scranton, Tampa, and New Orleans. Just cant compare, different beasts. Unless you ofcourse are saying that any of them are active? Do you have any other info on Tampa other than articles? and if so how can we believe you and that you simply arent just misleading because you are or arent from Tampa?

Good stuff Nickle.
Until we find out more information, I'd pick the 1st of your options.
Although I really don't know.
But I commend your researching skills.


Thanks for admitting you were throwing girly insults. I wonder what Bensonhurst is going to say now.


Rooster. Again I ask that you can "quote" my comments when you reply to them so I don't have to keep going back and checking what you are responding to. That way you can also make sure you havent missed anything I said.

That's the most ironic thing you've said this entire thread.
For people to believe you, means that have to believe solely, 100% on your word, your corroborated word, alone. Right? Do you agree? Rooster, I'd like you to respond to this one. Because YES, just because I say something DOES NOT mean it's true. This is why I offer sources, evidence, references. You do NONE of that. You expect people to rely SOLELY on your word alone. And you can say "Nickle and Giacomo agree with me" but you still have facts and information that neither of those can corrorborate.

So, again, just because I say something, doesn't mean it's the truth.
But here's the thing:
Just because YOU say something, doesn't mean it's the truth.
If you want to call me out, look in the fuckin mirror. Because Bensonhurst and others around here seem to think you are some sort of expert on subjects, even though you have no proof in the vast majority of your claims about the family.
And here's the worst part about this. Even though you offer no proof (and you scoffed at me when I asked for proof as if it was some unheard-of concept), you still think people HAVE to believe you. Because, according to you, they're delusional if they don't believe. How does that work? Again, Rooster, if you're going to respond to anything, respond to this.


None of which either he or you can prove.
And if he admits to lying, for no apparent reason, why do you hold him on such a pedastal? But not Coppola? Just because Coppola used the wrong adjective ONCE in his article, you scrap away any respect you had for him even though he is not only acclaimed, he is well-researched. But when Giacomo admits to lying and lies on multiple occasions for no apparent reason, that doesn't occur to you as odd?
Giacomo is a resident bullshitter. How often does he bullshit? That is impossible to determine because, like everything he says about Buffalo, there is no way to offer proof for/against at the moment.
But the fact that he has been caught lying on multiple occasions should be enough to quickly scrap his credibility. And the worst part is, he hasn't even been proven RIGHT on anything "street talk" he puts out.


Again with the irony.
You don't want anyone to believe a word I say, but people are, in your words, delusional if the don't believe the almighty, uncorroborated, Rooster, whose beat cops know everything about the family but can't make a bust.


Your very first comment on this thread. VERY FIRST.
Was calling people DELUSIONAL for not believing your point of view.
Where is the double standard here? Are you that fucking ignorant?
Everything you are accusing me of doing is stuff you've been doing since the beginning of this thread.
So, I say to you:
That's not life, Rooster. Wake up and allow people to connect whatever dots they want and deal with it. Don't call people delusional if they don't believe your uncorrorborated bullshit story.
I seriously think you have some mental issues Rooster, to basically tell everyone they are "delusiona" for feeling a certain way on not only what I say, but what is backed up by feds, DAs, federal prosecutors, proven mob experts, and investigative journalists.


And we don't believe you or your uncorrorborated, fictional, made-up, disproven, bullshit. Do you understand? Get a life.


And Rooster! Remember that if you want to properly reply to me, use the "quote" button like I have done. This way you can't miss anything I've written, just like I can't miss yours.
Books by who?
Investigative journalists? Who, according to you, all have an agenda and are colluding to lie about the Buffalo mob? Yeah... Respond to this one...



I agree Nickle, and my opinions are constantly changing too.

Why not, Roost? Do they have different rules to Buffalo?



You know what? Despite what articles say, Tampa is still active. 60+ made members. Work with the cartel to traffic cocaine across America. Vin LoScalzo is head of the Commission. Steve Raffa faked his suicide and now lives under the name "Art Vandaley" and sells patio furniture. I heard it from reliable sources (beat cops and people in the know). These beat cops say they are trying to find new leads on this Vandaley guy because the patio furniture he sells is counterfeit. They also work with Raul Castro to smuggle guns to Cuba, just the Trafficantes conspired to do in the 50s.

He cannot answer this

"CHECK-MATE"

What?

I for one just happen to appreciate a good debate.

I can see both sides I don't know that we can say for certain that anyone is 100% right or wrong.

I appreciate all the research you guys do I leared a lot THANK YOU.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicky, you only see your side of the equation, I am not sure why you think your opinion counts more than anoyone else's

And because I have a different opinion than you do you try to insult me and call me names??

Maybe that helps you feel better about yourelf??? Whatever floats your boat

Bensonhurst! It is not MY opinion. It is the opinion of the feds, DAs, federal prosecutors, proven mob experts, and investigative journalists.
Why do you hold Rooster's opinion in such high prestige?

[/quote]

By the way, Nickle.

The Black Hand chart you mentioned is not the same as 2006's FBI chart that was referenced in the Niagara Falls Reporter. Cheers to Wiseguy for pointing this out.

So, for the last time, we don't know whether Violi was on that list. Meaning that the argument the family was stronger than it seemed, or made guys post-2006, isn't accurate.

Based on what the feds say about the family, Violi was made pre-2006, and therefore is probably on the FBI's 2006 chart. For those who are about to accuse me of voicing "my opinion as fact," this is based on the FBI and others' view of the family post-2006.

[/quote]

Bensonhurst Nicky takes the opinion of the Feds who in turn feed their info/opinion to the papers/investigative reporters. And yes the Feds are right about a lot of things, so I understand why he has a hard time questioning them. But he did admit to questioning their complete validity when he admitted his opinion that the Todaro Family arrests in Canada logically suggest that 2006 FBI chart was very likely wrong, because it did not contain any of the arrest names listed in the Canadian papers. Therefore, I can safely say the Buffalo Crime Family was very likely larger, more organized, and more powerful than the FBI gave credit in 2006. ( I think deep down Nicky realizes this too. He did admit it is more likely that the Violi’s were made in the Buffalo Family, than the family making more members after 2006. This means the Buffalo Family had at least 2 active crews in Canada (Papalia and Luppino). [That’s in addition to the Utica, Nothside/The Falls, and the Westside/Buffalo crews suggested by the capos on the chart.] If the FBI missed the Violi’s or whoever was on the list of Todaro Family arrests in Canada, who knows how many other soldiers they missed. After all Cosa Nostra is a secret organization.

Yes but, as I've recently discovered, we still have not seen the 2006 FBI chart, and it is not the one that was posted on Black Hand. So it's possible the Violis, at least one of them, was actually on that chart after all, or at least someone from those busts. Before select people on this forum berate me for having an opinion, I just have to add that I came to that conclusion based on the fact that the FBI has confirmed the family is dead, as in not making new members.

And Nickle, thanks for trying to write what I think "deep down," but I'd like Bensonhurst's own response to my comments please.

Nicky cites sources that are strong arguments, but he has now concentrated on me, since he feels he is hitting a brick wall. That stuff is supposed to not spill over from the Blackhand Forum. When it came out that the Canadians arrested members of the Todaro family, reliable sources said that quite a few people over at BH crapped their pants and many more were stunned. Figured sooner or later some of those fellows might come on here, I honestly thought Rooster was such a person. Nicky you registered in December of 17', but did not start posting till early February, then when this thread took off, you pounced on it. It was like you were waiting for this thread, of course you made plenty of references to the BH, which altogether leads to you having an agenda the whole time. What is it with Crusaders? They have a pure and honourable ideal or philosophy, but end up acting like assholes, even I am not above that, to prove a point. Am I saying I am better than anyone else? Hell no. I laugh cause there is irony in all of this, in the land of the blind, the one eye is king.

Back on topic. Buffalo family has been active, and said what I had to say on the family. Most people laugh at the members and say they only take in two bit hoods, when in actuality, they do bring in more sophisticated individuals, they roll with the times. NF, Utica, Buffalo, and Hamilton is still active. For the sake of the argument, let's wait until what is revealed in the Violi case, I don't think anyone is going to change their minds, BensonHURST is open minded.