Nothing to give up Nicky, you lost weeks ago. When not everyone believes your articles and believe my logic. Get it? Ofcourse you dont. Ive answered enough of your questions for you to know my answers to any new questions you may bring up. Anyone can pick apart an answer, yours have easily been picked apart by 3 others on this thread.

I answer a question and you tell me its wrong. You answer my question and I tell you its wrong.

Im not foaming at the mouth about anything, you just cant see past what you see, get it? No, ofcourse you dont. You dont see logic. Reread what Nickle said when it comes to ideology and interepretation and logic you might learn something. We can keep this going for another month, youve been easy pickings since the jump as far as Im concerned.

And again, in my opinion, trying to compare Buffalo to Tampa and Scranton is ridiculous. Apples and oranges. That is my opinion and Ive given you the reasons why I believe this. Get it? No, ofcourse you dont.

Ive answered all your questions, you just adapt the same question so that maybe one of my new answers fits your narrative better. Get it? No, ofcourse you dont.

Almost as much of a lie as you being from the Balkans

Also, Rooster, notice how I was able to respond to everything in one post, complete with multiple quotes from multiple of your comments? You can do it too if you set your mind to it.

No insults. Ive explained myself time and time again and answered dozens of your questions.

I clearly answered how Buffalo was different than Tampa and Scranton.

Reread the thread, look at your own insults towards me and several others, understand how you try to undermine other peoples logic and then maybe youll come to terms with how lost you truly are.

Until then, youre still nothing more than a crusader whos two years late,

too reliant on articles,

and too blinded to understand alternative theories and contradictory evidence.

So again, you dont believe me and I dont believe you, people believe me and some people believe you. Agree to disagree? Ofcourse not, you still dont get it.

Dozens is enough, you simply regurgitate the same questions in a slightly different format for every time I answer the original questions.

Already explained how Buffalo is different than Tampa and Scranton and the theory that the Mafia cant adapt and what once was the rule is no longer the rule (saying that a boss is as defunct as a family is including in title and that the title doesnt mean anything as is barely used anymore even when identifying Delia and Loscalzo) in 2018 by you can be picked apart easily.Yet another reason, in 2018 this is apple and oranges. Ive provided many others.

You keep putting words on this thread I didnt use, I never said dozens of beat cops give me my intel and using the word bulk insinuates they are primary.

Most of my intel comes from cops and just being around different circles, bars, restuarants, etc. then determining what is probable on my own and understanding how and why the Mafia operates here in general and telling you all.

Your sources, although seemingly believable and holding titles of respectable members of their past and current field, again, as Ive said before have their own agendas, want to push their own theories, and contradict and exaggerate themselves many times in their articles. This includes the journalists and law enforcement/

Coppola using the word "penniless" shows hes a provocateur not a writer. Its a ridiculous statement that he put out in a time when it wasnt true at all. It doesnt invalidate everything just shows how he operates. The family still had and was making a lot of money in 1998.

The alternative theory wasnt and is not that currently the FBI works with Buffalo for me, so no you dont understand.

You joined in 2017 and then started on this thread after crickets from you, just odd you become a hard driven expert. So, in my opinion your 2 years late and slow with initial posts on this forum.

Youre too reliant on what your told by who you think know everything about a Mafia family and believe that humans who have high titles dont or cant make mistakes, either on accident or purpose.

And yes I believe you have some weird fetish (maybe homo erotic) for this and/or me

due to your insidious nature

and inability to agree to disagree over a month ago now, even after you were happy with waiting on the Violi bust to play out at one point.

Side note- A while back when I said many people know the family to be operating and viable and many think the same. If you look at a lot of the "regular joe" forums like Topix and SpeakupWNY the consensus is split about 50/50 one way or the other. To me, that can show someone like you, beyond any claims Ive made the feel and understanding of this city and who these guys are and that they still have a hand in organizing local organized crime.

Rooster. When you respond to my posts, can you please use the "quote" button so you can break down everything I've said and I know exactly what you're responding to?

No need, if you cant follow, thats on you. But Ill do you this favor once.


If that was the case, you wouldn't have so much difficulty answering them.

No, difficulty. Ive answered plenty as Ive said many, many times.


ROOSTER. I understand the apples and oranges concept. For the 100th time.
My question was, and STILL IS, why do you continue to bring up LoScalzo and D'Elia even when we are on a completely different subject? That is my one question. Please, for the love of god, stop dodging it!

Im not dodging anything. I bring it up because you think its relative to Buffalo when its not. Again, apples and oranges.

Also, what does it matter whether LoScalzo is the "boss" or the "former boss." Why did you bring it up in the first place? These are all things I fail to understand.

Because it shows your inability to understand 2018 even if I were to allow credence to your comparison with Buffalo

Here's what the LoScalzo argument in this thread has been:
We're arguing about Buffalo. You decide to bring up a comment from a whole other thread and say "By the way Nicky, how is LoScalzo the boss in 06 if you said the family was defunct by 07? What was he the boss of?"
Even though that comment had nothing to do with this thread, I answered it anyways. I explained that a person can hold the boss title in name alone - I gave William D'Elia as an example, and of clear proof that this is an accepted fact across the Mafia. Then you argued with me. You argued with something that is literally common knowledge. You argued that even though D'Elia was boss in name alone after his family was defunct, that simply wasn't the case with LoScalzo. I have no clue why you decided to argue this. You are from Buffalo. You have never claimed to have any knowledge about Tampa. Yet, for some reason, you decided to argue with me over something that has literally been proven right in another city, with another Mafia family.
Then, somewhere along the line, you got confused and decided to say "Well, the D'Elia thing isn't the case with Buffalo, it's apples and oranges."
First of all, the argument over whether LoScalzo should be called a "boss" or a "former boss" has nothing to do with Buffalo, yet you tried to make it so. Second of all, WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER??? It's just terminology. It's not set in stone. Who cares if he is the "boss" of a defunct family or a "former boss" of a defunct family? The family is defunct. It doesn't fucking matter.

It matters because its irrelevant to Buffalo but youve tried to use it as evidence for Buffalo many, many times.

THAT is my question. I don't care whether LoScalzo or D'Elia are incomparable to Buffalo. That is an argument we can have later, since it isn't really relevant. My question is why, oh why, do you keep making wisecracks about LoScalzo and D'Elia in subjects and conversations that have nothing to do with him. I could say that I prefer red wine to white and you'd bring up D'Elia somehow. That's why I ask.



Ah, here we go. I shouldn't even bother proving you wrong, since when you're proven wrong you have a tendency to ignore it entirely and pretend it never happened.
But here is you, in 2016, explaining where your "intel" comes from:

So yeah. Either you were lying in 2016, or you're lying now, or you just conveniently forgot who your sources are...
And the reason I say "dozens of beat cops" is because the amount of street talk on the Buffalo mob you provide is enormous. So either you've got dozens of cops that you know, or it's just a couple of guys that are, for some reason, the biggest OC experts in the Buffalo region and know more than the FBI, state cops, DAs, federal prosecutors, longtime OC investigative journalists, mob informers, and Ron Fino....
Stick to one story Rooster.

So now it must be dozens because you say so? Thats your theory? Means nothing, just exaggerating babble.

Ah, here we go nothing. You said dozens when I used the words many and used the word bulk when I used many. You are misleading people in hopes you can uncover subtle nonissues to try and discredit.


Here's the difference between me and you, Roost. I can actually cite sources. I can actually cite references. I can actually link articles which explicitly describe the Buffalo mob's demise. Such articles offer statements from FBI, DAs, federal prosecutors, longtime investigative journalists, mob experts, Ron Fino, and more.

Ive cited your sources as exaggerating, contradictory, and misleading. So theres no difference other than the overall interpretation of the sources. Which everyones been over several times.

You, on the other hand, can't offer anything apart from uncorroborated and unverified statements about a family which police say have been defunct for the 15 years. The only people that back your story up are an exposed, proven, admitted liar named Giacomo Vacari, and another poster who seems to believe the family is in kahoots with the FBI and the FBI is protecting them in the unions. Nothing against you NickleCity, but Rooster said he doesn't agree with this analysis at all.

You can choose not to believe, thats fine. Weve been over this dozens of times. And when I use that word Im not lying.

Not really though. The unions were gone, loansharking was drying up, illegal gambling was drying up. Etc. The article describes IN DETAIL how the Buffalo mob's rackets were falling apart.
So yes, comparatively, the Buffalo mob was penniless by 1998 when you compare it to what they were making just a decade prior. Such a huge dip in income is hard to describe.

Just untrue and nothing YOU would know anyway. The unions werent gone, the casinos hadnt opened yet here and Nicoletti was still in control of all gambling, per your beloved law enforcement agencies.

And if Coppola is a "provoceateur not a writer," what does that make you considering you argued that the name "Todaro crime family" wasn't in use before 2017.

I definitely dont claim to be a journalist like he does so im not required to be held to an actually industry standard. He has a lot more responsibility than I do.



So, because I joined this forum in 2017, I'm somehow unqualified to know anything about the Buffalo mob? Why is it so odd that I'm a "hard-driven expert", as you put it?
And let's not forget the hypocrisy here. You joined the forum in 2016 and immediately jumped into the Buffalo thread. It was such a quick creation of an account that people were, fairly so, assuming you were an alias of Giacomo Vacari's. And somehow, because I joined the forum a year later, I'm not allowed to know anything about the mob?

Not unqualified, just tardy or invigorated because your narrative doesnt fit and it pissed you off enough one day to finally start writing.

And please, explain to me how the cut-off date for Buffalo mob discussions was 2016? Because I'm apparently "two years late," meaning nobody is allowed to discuss the Buffalo mob past 2016? Who made that rule? Why didn't I get the memo?

You couldnt even merge the thread to Buffalo thread, so yes, late and still not on the actual thread. But you got your way to stay on the Bufalino thread.


Rooster. Who is more likely to make "mistakes, either on accident or purpose"?

Random internet posters with no validity or verification
OR
Federal authorities, who have among the highest convictions rates in the US and who get it right a solid 95% of the time.
District attorneys, whose job it is to make cases in and around Buffalo using evidence that is obtained through all different forms of police.
Federal prosecutors, who make cases at the federal level.
Longtime residents of Buffalo, who have been in and around the city for years.
Mob informants, who - despite not being involved in the life for many years - know the inner workings of the crime family and how it operates.
Longtime investigative organized crime journalists, whose job it is to report on organized crime in and around the Buffalo area.
Mob experts, with proven sources across the nation.

Riddle me this.

And thats your right to believe their theory over mine. As we said many, many times.


Notice how your little clique of Buffalo believers have all but abandoned this thread? It's probably because of retarded comments like that.

I'm insidious because I called you out on your bullshit?

No bullshit, youve achieved nothing.


If you ever wonder why I keep arguing, just look at the subtle jabs you've continued to make just as the argument is beginning to close. Like when Bensonhurst commented on another thread and you made a jab at me.

Its relative, because people speculate on this forum all the time about status and members of Mafia and what they donor dont do. So its fitting that you police ever conversation and everything that is said about every family and every member to make sure you have hard evidence that proves everyone is " hobest" when they quote.


I guess you'll have to do a survey on the streets of Buffalo to find out that true answer.
And by the way, organized crime is almost definitely still active in the city of Buffalo, as well as every major city in the US. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. But I don't think the Todaro crime family has any stake in the game.

I didnt quote reply correctly

Buffalo telemarketing companies also include sons and grandsons of mobsters and others known to associate with organized crime figures:

Joseph Todaro III, the son of the man the FBI identifies as Buffalo's mob boss, Joseph Todaro Jr., was a supervisor at Logik Enterprises, at 496 Elmwood Ave., until four months ago, when the FBI raided other companies.

RAIDS ON TELEMARKETING FIRMS FIND NUMEROUS TIES TO ORGANIZED CRIME

By MICHAEL BEEBE AND DAN HERBECK | Published June 27, 1993

When the FBI raided the offices of Very Impressive Products, a company affiliated with RFG Enterprises, they found evidence of what they had suspected in Buffalo's telemarketing industry -- ties to the Buffalo mob.

VIP's checking accounts were used for employee payrolls, as well as for paying the company president, Rocco F. Guadagna, and another man, Frank BiFulco, FBI agents were told.

Guadagna had been a bartender at Mulligans Cafe through the mid-1980s, living in a $41,000 two-family home in North Buffalo. Since starting his own telemarketing company in 1988, he now heads an $11 million-a-year business and lives in a $250,000 home in Clarence.

Although Guadagna never has been tied to organized crime, BiFulco is identified by the FBI as a longtime soldier in the Todaro crime family in Buffalo and one of the local mob's wealthiest members.

On a salary of about $60,000 a year as an administrator of Laborers Local 210 health and pension fund, "Butchie BiFocals," as he is known, drives a 1992 Mercedes Benz and a 1987 Jaguar, docks a cabin cruiser on the Niagara River and owns considerable real estate in Buffalo.

BiFulco, 48, has no public connection to the telemarketing business, but a number of checks made out to him from VIP, which are now in the FBI's possession, leaves investigators with the strongest link yet about the mob's involvement.

"Frank BiFulco is not an owner of the company," said Guadagna's attorney, Thomas C. D'Agostino. He refused to discuss why company checks would be made out to BiFulco, other than to say "there is absolutely nothing wrong." Yet sources said BiFulco is not the only member of organized crime in Buffalo involved in telemarketing.

Gaetano "Tommy Chooch" Miceli, 65, named by the FBI as a member of the local mob council as long ago as 1975, is associated with New Life Marketing at 1444 Hertel Ave., law enforcement sources said.

John Catanzaro, 50, is associated with the same company, these sources said. Catanzaro, a former steward for Laborers Local 210, also has been identified as a member of organized crime. He reached a plea agreement in 1989 and admitted he accepted money in a no-show scheme.

Buffalo telemarketing companies also include sons and grandsons of mobsters and others known to associate with organized crime figures:

Joseph Todaro III, the son of the man the FBI identifies as Buffalo's mob boss, Joseph Todaro Jr., was a supervisor at Logik Enterprises, at 496 Elmwood Ave., until four months ago, when the FBI raided other companies.

"He does not hold a position nor does he hold any ownership interest in Logik Enterprises," said Robert L. Boreanaz, Logik's attorney.

Frank Tripi, whose father was acquitted of murder and mob-related gambling charges, is listed in state records as Logik's president.

BiFulco's 15-year-old stepson, Carmen Gallo, a Lafayette High School student who was killed by drug dealers last month, was a salesman at Logik. After his killing, Logik employees flooded the East Side with their business cards and offers of a $20,000 reward in the slaying.

Samuel Amoia Jr., the grandson of former Buffalo mob boss Sam Pieri, is secretary-treasurer of LoMoia Enterprises at 1300 Hertel Ave. Amoia served a prison term for dealing cocaine in 1988. His brother Joseph faces cocaine charges in Las Vegas.

Michael A. Muscarella, the president of New Life Marketing, has been arrested for gambling. Muscarella is best known as the owner of the vehicle that police say was used as a getaway car in the 1978 shooting of mobster Billy Sciolino.

Joseph Mosey Jr., described by Buffalo police as an associate of organized crime figures, was one of the city's first telemarketers and was accused of defrauding customers in New York, California and Vermont through his Allied Publishers Services. Police say he has tutored many of Buffalo's younger telemarketers. Mosey formerly owned Bison Chrysler-Plymouth with Robert Sciolino, Billy Sciolino's brother.

Larry Panaro, vice president of North American Enterprises, at 3673 Delaware Ave., faces trial in Las Vegas on money laundering charges. His cousin, Victor, is serving a life sentence on drug and murder convictions. Las Vegas police said Larry Panaro boasted that he had family connections to the Buffalo mob.

Steve Sacco, a principal in Promotions Unlimited, is the son of former Buffalo police officer Richard Sacco and nephew of the late John Sacco, a mob associate who was briefly an FBI informant against the mob. Steve Sacco was arrested for burglary and drug possession in Las Vegas in 1989 while he was making more than $70,000 a year in telemarketing. He paid a $990 fine. Sacco's father, Richard, was dropped from the Police Department after the FBI recorded him telling his brother John the best ways to perform a contract killing.

Vincent Spano is the manager of North American Enterprises. Spano is a convicted gambler who has been linked to the mob by the FBI. The federal government seized the Washington Square restaurant, owned by Spano's father-in-law, because it was used for gambling.

It's pretty obvious that this conversation will go nowhere.

I said before that I wouldn't respond to anything unless Rooster answered the questions I posed. I actually said this more than once, but I found myself getting roped in by Rooster's stupid attacks and insults.

So... is there another forum that actually discusses the family this forum was supposed to cover, the Bufalinos???