I’m actually surprised that there hasn’t been too much fighting between the three organizations.

it happened sometimes only in north italy, in the south every organization run its own region

What about the Medellin Cartel under Pablo? Or the Cali cartel? Or the Juarez cartel with the lord of the skies?

I guess we'll never know. Been on this forum for 6 years almost. This discussion pops up so much. Especially the Albanian vs Cosa Nostra or Russian vs Cosa Nostra groups where everyone bashes each other backing their info on some 50 year old Gasoline bust by Feds or some pushed up news articles based on nothing.

I actually doubt that any of these crime groups you name - have been fighting internationally with each other. Or that they ever will. More or less they will actually try to work together if it comes to it to make more money. Thus as people said before - all these big crime organizations are divided into smaller groups. Which can be stronger and weaker than others.

And in what way actually stronger? Manpower and their discipline? Their strategics in business? Influence over other groups?

It's a large subject and hard to actually make and conclusion. Starting from the fact that all info available to anyone of us are police reports, news articles, some books or something some guy who maybe was in contact with them told to us. We'll never know of everything any of these groups done in their business as it doesn't get documented like police work. And simply because no-one will tell everything of it, just for the fact to not sit life in prison.

I think it’s safe to assume that some criminal organizations do I have a very large international reach but unless you’re apart of it or fighting against it then you’re right we probably won’t know absolutely everything.

Theres a international war going on right now in Canada...
idk what u guys are talking about.... There has been several cases of international groups fighting for controll in places such as Germany with the Ndrangheta.

i agree that the Russians are not as powerfull as once believed they could get too. but the Ndrangheta has proven to be international and deadly.

I agree about the Ndrangheta

To be honest, Russian crime groups have shown to be very powerful. Such as biggest groups like Solncevskaya have contacts within Kremlin and also sub-groups are based in many other countries or they just force other smaller groups to go under them like it has happened with Haritonov Brigade in the early 2000's.

Different groups have gained contacts in government structures like Vor V Zakone Vyacheslav "Sliva" Shestakov who was caught discusinng with Estonian Security Service agent in a Latvian curort city restaurant. The agent later was arrested and prosecuted for it.

Deadly? There's a lot of conflicts going on between the groups themselves in Russia and they bring it out in Europe too. Paddy Doyle an Irish criminal in Spain was killed by Russians in 2008. There's been several Russian hits done in Latvia and Europe overall.

You can't compare the power between this groups as we don't have the whole information on every single crime group linked there. But saying Russians are not powerful is a weak fact.

Co-signed 100%, the Russian organized crime groups are extremely powerful. A lot of them have influence at the highest levels of government, especially in agencies like the FSB..

Power is all very relative, it depends on a lot of factors like what type of situation, because every organization has its strengths and weaknesses. Also the location is extremely important, because a certain Yakuza group for example, can be all powerful in a certain part of Japan but that doesn't mean they can win a turf war in a certain inner-city neighborhood of France or Belgium. It's like my man President Underwood always says: ''Power is a lot like Real Estate, it's all about location, location, location..''

The Russian state is the biggest gang lol.

Truer words have seldom been spoken.. Vladimir Vladimirovitsj Putin a.k.a. Vor di tutti Vory

Forgot to post this...

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/k...d-for-business-chicago-cartel-boss-said/


I'm not completely sure I would put Sinaloa as top cartel right now......

I’ve been watching documentaries on some overseas criminal organizations like la cosa nostra and the Camorra so I’ve been interested in them.

I remember making a thread about some of the biggest earners in mafia history in America; and I recall somebody saying that some of the biggest earners in Italy were some of the richest and most powerful people out there(inside or outside of crime) and made any criminal organization in America looks small in comparison in terms of wealth and power. How accurate is that?

The American Mafia was at the top for a very long time.

Really? I would’ve thought that the mafia in Italy has been more powerful for a very long time based on the money they supposedly make.

There was huge money to be made in the USA for decades starting with prohibition, while Sicilian mafia and 'ndrangheta were just a bunch shepherds and farmers in an underdeveloped country.

yes, american mafia was richer and more powerful than italian mafia in the 1940/50/60, and it was probably the strongest criminal group worldwide at that time
italian mafia became stronger and richer only after the 1960s, and it was at the ending of 1800/beginning of 1900

Strongest criminal group worldwide? Exxagerate much?
I think one of the most lucrative group in the US as a Collective.

from the 1940s to 1960s i think it was the strongest worldwide, being very strong in the most powerful country, it had political connections etc. i don't see another criminal group even close at that time

When you say most powerful, are you talking about wealth as well? Or were other criminal enterprises out-earning them in the world during that time?

https://youtu.be/JVxLNNL7oLI

In this documentary about Frank Matthews, at around the 43 minute and 50 second mark of the video, they say frank had more money than the American mob and they even go so far to say that the mob was overrated. What is everyone’s take on this?

i'm talking about everything, in general, power, richness, organization etc.
frank matthews was at its peak at the beginniong of 1970s when america mafia was weaker than the previous decades, more money than american mob? it means nothing, he was very rich and richer of some mafia bosses, but american mob as a whole was by far richer than matthews organization
the italians (american mafia) controlled the importing and wholesaling of narcotics form 1940s to 1960s in the states

Ok I see what you’re saying. At what point do you think the mafia in Italy really became a multi billion dollar powerhouse? 1970s and up?

I was reading about Francesco Schiavone from the Camorra and he had hundreds of millions. Maybe even more.

I think there's not enough information to even consider them the strongest ( by your definition) worldwide during the 40s to 60s. You have the Yakuza & Triads to consider and drug cartels back then as well. Now in the United States as a collective , they're are high earners of the time. Still have other US crime groups of that period making large money too.

I think the mob in America always wanted to become respected top businessmen. They were well on their way to that in the 40s-60s I’m sure but somewhere along the line it all came falling down and currently, they appear to be a shell of what they once were in terms of wealth and power.

italian mafia in italy became a multi billion dollar powerhouse only in the1970s, because of the management of public works, gambling, international drug trafficking etc.
there are several italian bosses who are millionaire, or even billionaire, matteo messina denaro is really billionaire, police seized assets worth 1,5 billion euros to him, and that's only the part seized

i think that american mafia in the 19401960 period was the strongest worldwide, it depends what you mean for information
at that time there were by far less powerful criminal groups than today, italian mafia in italy, yakuza and triads were weaker than american mob i bet, yakuza was at its peak in 1980s (american mob in 1960s), italian mafia in italy was at its peak in 1980s too, i don't know Triads, but probably in the 1970s were at their peak
mexican and colombian cartels were nothing at that time, russian mafia didn't exist, so i think italo-american mob was really the strongest at that time

The americans made a fortune with the teamsters and other unions.

All very great points!