yes, i know it, i a read several things about the subject, but again, there is not any valid proof, they are just speculations or even legends, like the italian mafias founded in 1300
we should say the same thing of italian mafias, because the origins of all this criminal groups are uncertain, so the italian mafia could be existed also in 1600 with another name, but are just speculations
the only certian thing is that camorra and sicilian mafia were active at the beginning of 1800s (ndrangheta emerged at the ending of 1800)
as i said yakuza was probably formed at the ending of 1800s, after all the yamaguchi-gumi, the most powerful yakuza clan was founded in 1913, yakuza is not a secretive criminal group so it's easy to know it, yakuza is not so old like somebody claim
sema for triads, the black societies are not triads, the triads were fiunded by members of some black societies like the heaven and earth society, who started to be criminally involved and it happened only in 1800