The Yakuza engaged in the same activities during that time frame and reached a collective peak of 180K membership in the late 60s. Triads probably aren't to far behind in the same time frame. Russian OC still exist back then but i don't know much information on it. Drug cartels that was shipping the products to Italian American mob ( mainly French & Asian OC) definitely was reaping significant revenues.

We need more members that know indepth history of organized crime in China & Japan. Afterall , Triads & Yakuza are at least 100 years older than all the Italian syndicates.

no, italian mafias (at least camorra and sicilian mafia) are older than yakuza that was formed at the ending of 1800, triads maybe are as old as italian mafias, both formed at the beginning of 1800 and strongly influenced by freemasons
anyway, that's just what i think, in my opinion american mob was the strongest in that period, i read yakuza was at its peak in the 1980, but yes was strong also in 1960, triads were porobably in 1970 at their peak
russian mafia, thieves in law, were formed in the prisons under stalin i think (1950s), but they were just a prison gang at that time
yes there were powerful criminal groups in the 1940/1960 (italian mafia in italy, yakuza, triads, corsicans) but american mob was the strongest in my opinion

Yakuza & Triads originated between the 1600s-1700s therefore oldest criminal collective/association in the world. Thieves in law was formed around the 1910-20s period or prior and im speaking on Russian OC outside of prison. No matter how misinformed it could be it's your opinion. I strongly disagree based on information here in the US OC & history of older OC collectives/associations.

i disagree, yakuza and triads were formed respectively at the ending of 1800 and beginning of 1800, i'm talking of facts, not legends
according to legends italian mafias (cosa nostra/camorra/ndrangheta) were formed in 1300, but it's just a legend, if we look historical facts sicilian mafia and camorra beginning of 1800 and ndrangheta ending of 1800
i've never see any real proof yakuza and triads were active in 1700, and any of thieves in law active outside prisons

Semion Mogilevich is probably worth more than any crime boss. Does that at all indicate that maybe the Russian mafia is the strongest?

Check your history; Yakuza formed between 1600-1830s during the Tokugawa Shogunate period. Triads aka Black Societies during the end of the Ming Dynasty ( 1368- 1644).

Again i stated OTHER Russian OC not Thieves-in- law.

yes, i know it, i a read several things about the subject, but again, there is not any valid proof, they are just speculations or even legends, like the italian mafias founded in 1300
we should say the same thing of italian mafias, because the origins of all this criminal groups are uncertain, so the italian mafia could be existed also in 1600 with another name, but are just speculations
the only certian thing is that camorra and sicilian mafia were active at the beginning of 1800s (ndrangheta emerged at the ending of 1800)
as i said yakuza was probably formed at the ending of 1800s, after all the yamaguchi-gumi, the most powerful yakuza clan was founded in 1913, yakuza is not a secretive criminal group so it's easy to know it, yakuza is not so old like somebody claim
sema for triads, the black societies are not triads, the triads were fiunded by members of some black societies like the heaven and earth society, who started to be criminally involved and it happened only in 1800

The valid proof is that both Yakuza & Triad predates the Italy's mafia groups yet you rather call it unproven. The research into those 2 collectives continue to refer or pinpoint to a specific era which haven't changed. Therefore it's not a legend just like it's a general assessment that Italy's mafia groups started in early to mid 1800s. Furthermore , Yamaguchi-gumi was founded in 1915 and the oldest active yakuza group is the Aizukotetsu-kai in Kyoto which been around since the 1870s. I think your high interest in Italy's OC creates this weird bias towards other OC.

whatever you want, there is not any valid proof triads and especially yakuza are older than italian syndicates
even if the oldest yakuza group which been around in 1870s (do you have valid proof?) it would be younger than camorra and sicilian mafia (there are valid proofs camorra was active in 1820s and sicilian mafia in 1830s)
i'm high interested in all kind of oc groups but yes focus more on italian ones being the most succesfull

i don't know how rich mogilevich is but italian police seized assets worth 1,5 billion euros to matteo messina denaro (only the part seized), i doubt mogilevich is so rich

Bandits and thieves were known before communism already in Russian Empire. Such as a Vor legend is about thief-fraudster Ivan "Vanya Kain" Osipov - was born in 1718, who started as a small thief. Then later after moving to Moscow and engaged into robberies with other known bandits and thieves, after that he manipulated the government in stating that he knows other thieves and robbers. In reality he was extorting other thieves and robbers, to not give them out to the officials. Only giving out the small fish. Basically, he managed to influence and push under other criminals based around Moscow back in that time, creating his own criminal empire. After some time his scheme was discovered and he was sent off to prisons in Rogevrik and later Siberia.

Vory V Zakone are stated to form in 1930's in Gulags and Prisons located around Russian territory at that time. They were formed between different types of professional criminals who at that time were imprisoned:
1) "Kvartirnie" - those who stole from apartments/houses
2) "Gorodushniki" - those who robbed stores
2) "Medvezhatniki" - Professional safe crackers
4) "Maidanshiki" - Fraudsters

Crime groups in Russia were known to be there before. Vory V Zakone just came in the middle and somewhat took over all of them and formed a path and codex to follow for other criminals in USSR. However near to 1990's and during them their influence dropped and other type of crime groups came along.

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/8-of-the-richest-gangsters-of-all-time.aspx
Here says Mogilevich has around 10billion net worth.
http://www.mk.ru/editions/daily/article/2005/10/25/190105-15-lits-dona-simeona.html
Here 10-12billion.

No it's whatever you want to believe in regards to everything you read historically. I've litetally told you the name of the Yakuza group, look them up. I don't know why you consider them older when there's multiple sources pointing to the designated timeline.

Thank you for the information.

i have an official italian source (police) vs speculations
italian police seized 1,5 billion from messina denaro, i can say is around 50 billions, nobody could say i'm wrong lol

you start saying yakuza and triads are 100 years older than italian syndicates, and i told you it is not right, or at least there is not any proof about it
and it's confirmed by the fact yamaguchi-gumi was founded in 1915 and the oldest active yakuza group is (maybe) the aizukotetsu-kai in kyoto which been around since the 1870s, so younger than sicilian mafia and camorra, if even true

there were criminals also under roman empire, i'm talking of specific groups, non general bandits/criminals
thieves in laws started in the gulags, in the 1930s-1950s period, the origin is uncertain

Ok, here's a part from an official article from the FBI in Russian saying he is worth actually 20billion. Or is this also a speculation against some "official article from police" which we never seen?
http://eu-objective.info/online/003/files/assets/common/downloads/page0092.pdf

how the fbi knows how mogilovich is rich? again, just speculation

Please list off any italian crime clan that have continous to exist since the 1800s. Show me your proof of these clans. Until then it's Yakuza & Triads.

By his listed businesses and properties which are registered by the government? Your weird fetish for Italian Mafias with biased arguments goes beyond borders already.

never see an official fbi source in english saying it, no doubt he is very rich but without valid proofs it is not true he's richer than any italian mafia boss like you claim, especially because nobody knows how really rich a mafia boss is
anyway i have not any fetish, you obviously have one for russian mafia

all the crime familes based in western sicily are active since 1800s and still are, they are the same clans, change only the name of the boss
for example antonino giammona was the boss of uditore family since the middle 1800s, and uditore family still exists, like several other ones
sicilian mafia itself is a hierarchical and single big group since the 1800

Neither have I seen any valid proofs of any Italian mafia boss being richer than Mogilevich. Your arguments are low. Just because the article is not in english, doesn't mean it's not true. Google translate if you have doubt.
Me and others provided proof of what we state, you just state something blindly and no proof backing it up. Provide exact proof of what you say, otherwise my statement of your fetish is true.

You see that's where we have different definitions of continuous group and a historic group. From my understanding, Antonini Giammona corsa is one od the earilest known gang in the Uditore district. There's more than 1 corsa that exist in that district now and there's no information that shows direct descendant from Giammona's crew. I haven't seen a source from Palermo referring to a specific corsas as being that old and refer to Uditore district as a histroric location or origin site. Japan Times and Japan's National Police Agency have mentioned the Aizukotetsu-kai being active since the 1870s/80s.

sorry black family honestly but i don't understand your point at all, uditore crime family in 1800s belonged to the same organization of today, sicilian mafia/cosa nostra, it's the same family and organization, there is not any doubt about it, several experts confirmed it, included john dickie and superintendent sangiorgi
yes aizukotetsu-kai is probably the oldest yakuza clan, active since the ending or 1800s (1870s/1880s), so younger that italian syndicates (camorra and sicilian mafia, repectively active since 1820s and 1830s)

I just understand that your set in your ways or understanding. Peace.

lol i don't know english enough to answer you better but anyway just read the john dickie books 'a history of the sicilian mafia' and 'blood brotherhoods'
because it's evident you know very little about italian syndicates

I know enough from being on here 5+ years. You should pick up on english translation through google or other outlets.

i mean you don't know so much about italian syndicates and i adviced you to read the john dickie books, even better than the italian ones about the subject although he's british
it's sure that sicilian mafia is a hierarchical and single big criminal group since at least the 1830s, with specific rituals and ranks (boss/underboss/consigliere/capodecina/soldier) there are several proofs confirmed it, the sangiorgi report in the ending of 1800s, for example, showed there was a boss of bosses, francesco siino (boss of noce cosca)
the uditiore crime family/cosca led by giammona in 1800s had the same rituals and ranks than the current one, in orther words it was the same organization sicilian mafia, also knows as cosa nostra, it is not so difficult to understand honesty
in the uditore neighborhood there is only 1 family/cosca even today, the other are part of uditore 'mandamento' (passo di rigano and torretta families), because sicilian mafia is divided into 'mandamenti' (3 or more neighbouring families) and the boss of the mandamento is a member of the provincial commission (in this case palermo), formed by all 'capimanddamento'
sicilian mafia is a secretive society, so it's logic there are not years of fundation and stuff like that like yakuza, and also the sicilian mafia was recognized officially by italian government and police only in 1992, before its existence was just theorized
and that's because the only sources in a criminal society are turncoats, there were turncoats also in the past, even in 1800s, but the trials ended with acquittance for not enough proofs