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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: kingoflittlenewyork]
#948650
07/29/18 08:08 PM
07/29/18 08:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 865
MightyDR
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 865
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I'm sure the list of high level mob rats that we don't know about would surprise us and that there were a lot more than revealed, but 50% is way too high. Also, considering the era they were alive in, we can't dismiss Frank Costello and Carlo Gambino outright as rats just because they were successful. Law enforcement was all over them in the later part of their careers and Costello even had to do some prison time. Now they may have ratted rivals out in their path to the top before they became a major law enforcement target like we know Luciano did, but there is no evidence. Luciano received a 40 year sentence and was doing his time like a man till his friends cut. deal to get him out, Gambino was harassed constantly after Valachi testified, and they even leaked. taped conversation between him and his wife to harass him in the newspapers. They treat rats different. Greg Scarpa was given immunity to do as he pleased for many years, same for Whitey Bulger. The rats are never pressured publicly or privately, unless they stop giving info. If Gambino or Costello gave "Tidbits" as a few like to try to get others to believe, they would have way more demanded of them to keep them out of prison. Underobess would go away, and in the old day a few small pieces of info would have never sufficed. The fact is the Mafia thrived for one main reason: No rats till Scarpa. Anastasia's brother is sad to have gave info after his brother was killed, but how true is that, and who dis the actually give up? Answer: No one. When I said Luciano did, I was referring to his early days when he ratted out fellow dope dealers. https://www.nytimes.com/1936/06/04/...-crimes-sold-narcotics-and-perjured.html"Lucania admitted that as a youth he had sold narcotics and that once he had given Federal agents here information that led to the seizure of a trunkful of narcotics" In Raab's "Five Families", he tells how this helped him evade arrest. Faithful1 wrote an amazing article on Luciana for Informer magazine. It broke down the myths of Luciana and the inaccuracies of The Last Testament. He goes into detail about this early episode involving the providing of said information. The guy who does the comic books, his first name is Chris but I can't remember his last name but he also wrote a good non hyped only facts book about Lucky. Thanks kingoflittlenewyork. I'll check them out.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: kingoflittlenewyork]
#948657
07/29/18 10:01 PM
07/29/18 10:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,779
jace
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,779
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I'm sure the list of high level mob rats that we don't know about would surprise us and that there were a lot more than revealed, but 50% is way too high. Also, considering the era they were alive in, we can't dismiss Frank Costello and Carlo Gambino outright as rats just because they were successful. Law enforcement was all over them in the later part of their careers and Costello even had to do some prison time. Now they may have ratted rivals out in their path to the top before they became a major law enforcement target like we know Luciano did, but there is no evidence. Luciano received a 40 year sentence and was doing his time like a man till his friends cut. deal to get him out, Gambino was harassed constantly after Valachi testified, and they even leaked. taped conversation between him and his wife to harass him in the newspapers. They treat rats different. Greg Scarpa was given immunity to do as he pleased for many years, same for Whitey Bulger. The rats are never pressured publicly or privately, unless they stop giving info. If Gambino or Costello gave "Tidbits" as a few like to try to get others to believe, they would have way more demanded of them to keep them out of prison. Underobess would go away, and in the old day a few small pieces of info would have never sufficed. The fact is the Mafia thrived for one main reason: No rats till Scarpa. Anastasia's brother is sad to have gave info after his brother was killed, but how true is that, and who dis the actually give up? Answer: No one. No snitches till Scarpa? Really? There were atleast 2 snitches in Morello's family and I'm talking like 1900s. There have always been snitches, from day one. Y'all can argue till your blue in the face but the fact is there have been snitches from the very beginning of the mob. Read The Rat Trap articles. Read The Informer article by faithful1(and 2 other co-authors) about the early days of the New York Mafia. Read The Barrel Murder by William Flynn. Read The First Family by Mike Dash. Argue the specifics of what constitutes being a snitch all day long but the facts remain. " Y'all can argue till your blue" "Y'all" Are we in Arkansas or something? Those bloggers who have theories they go out of the way to bend to fit their agenda don't impress me. The Morelllo Gang was not really American Mafia, of which we are discussing. Y' all.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: jace]
#948658
07/29/18 10:15 PM
07/29/18 10:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
kingoflittlenewyork
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
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That's your argument? That there were no informants before Scarpa? My statement was not a theory, it is a well documented fact. Simply go to Mary Ferrell's site and type 'informant' into the search. You telling me every single source in the country is Scarpa?
I didn't realize a made Mafioso that moved to America and started a gang was not considered the Mafia lol
Would you like more examples relevant to the modern Mafia or are you just here to argue?
And yes I'm from Arkansas.
One last thing, who did Scarpa testify against to get less time?
Last edited by kingoflittlenewyork; 07/29/18 10:42 PM.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: Tonytough]
#948666
07/30/18 12:06 AM
07/30/18 12:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
kingoflittlenewyork
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
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He is not a reincarnation of Nicola Gentile, like I guess you imagine him to be. I've read everything on him you have buddy. He testified against no one. All those years of informing did him alot of good after he was sentenced to LIFE IN JAIL FOR MURDER in 95.
Nice try though.
Please tell me the mob didn't sell drugs next. Tell me Frank Costello didn't go to a shrink. Pull a pic and tell me Chin missed on purpose. But if your gonna sit here and say there where no snitches before Scarpa then your just out of touch.
Hell Valachi was even before Scarpa. Every blacked out name really just says Scarpa under it.
The FBI still doesn't release names of informants after they die so none of y'all can sit here and say who talked and who didn't. Hell Owney Madden talked and gave info to the FBI every damn month after he moved to Hot Springs.
Last edited by kingoflittlenewyork; 07/30/18 12:31 AM.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: Tonytough]
#948672
07/30/18 12:45 AM
07/30/18 12:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
kingoflittlenewyork
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
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All pre October 1962 info was just guess work then. Mystery solved. Thanks for your help Jace.
Last edited by kingoflittlenewyork; 07/30/18 12:46 AM.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: Tonytough]
#948674
07/30/18 12:54 AM
07/30/18 12:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
kingoflittlenewyork
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
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FBI reports on Hot Springs during antiracketeering investingtions to determine weather Chicago or New York gangsters had interests in the casinos of Hot Springs. He confirmed Gangster visits and gave info on local politicians and casino owners, including himself. Btw it's pre 1962 info.
And it was sarcasm....if you want to believe Scarpa was the first snitch in the history of the mob go right ahead cause I'm done with it.
Last edited by kingoflittlenewyork; 07/30/18 12:55 AM.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: jace]
#948685
07/30/18 03:27 AM
07/30/18 03:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815
Larry's Bar
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Valachi testified in 63 but was talking to investigators before Oct 62 when Scarpa was arrested and flipped.
Your beyond reach, have a good night. Scarpa was cooperating first, in 1962 according to his files, and was suspected by Columbo members and associates of being a rat in 1973, according to his sons book. Valachi was cooperating before Scarpa to the FBN. The FBN and the FBI were fighting for control of Valachi when he killed the wrong man. Jack Ruby was even an "Informant" to the FBN but he gave little info and misinformation, he has a light file to his name. The FBN had made members giving information to them before the FBI got involved.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#948777
07/30/18 10:40 PM
07/30/18 10:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,779
jace
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,779
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Valachi testified in 63 but was talking to investigators before Oct 62 when Scarpa was arrested and flipped.
Your beyond reach, have a good night. Scarpa was cooperating first, in 1962 according to his files, and was suspected by Columbo members and associates of being a rat in 1973, according to his sons book. Valachi was cooperating before Scarpa to the FBN. The FBN and the FBI were fighting for control of Valachi when he killed the wrong man. Jack Ruby was even an "Informant" to the FBN but he gave little info and misinformation, he has a light file to his name. The FBN had made members giving information to them before the FBI got involved. How much did Ruby really have to give? Not much I think, if anything at all.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#948853
07/31/18 10:54 PM
07/31/18 10:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,262 >>>OVA THERE
njcapo35
BANNED
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BANNED
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,262
>>>OVA THERE
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The FBN had someone in the colombo family before Scarpa
Yup, I heard it was Frankie Shots.
"Jersey...It's where my story begins."
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: njcapo35]
#948896
08/01/18 09:42 AM
08/01/18 09:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815
Larry's Bar
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The FBN had someone in the colombo family before Scarpa
Yup, I heard it was Frankie Shots. I don't think so, but someone close to Frankie Shots, John Oddo, and Phil Fontana that is for sure. Also the informant was born in Villabate, Frankie Shots was not born there.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: streetbossliborio]
#948948
08/01/18 06:13 PM
08/01/18 06:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
kingoflittlenewyork
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
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Thanks for posting the rat trap website. Been literally reading It every evening for days since you put it up. Whoever the guy is writing that needs to write more. Brilliant read.
If you have any more website shouts like that please post! It is a great site overall not just the Rat Trap section. I'm sure your already aware of David's Gangster Inc site. There is one more I can think of now let me find the link real quick.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: kingoflittlenewyork]
#948949
08/01/18 06:22 PM
08/01/18 06:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
kingoflittlenewyork
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
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Thanks for posting the rat trap website. Been literally reading It every evening for days since you put it up. Whoever the guy is writing that needs to write more. Brilliant read.
If you have any more website shouts like that please post! It is a great site overall not just the Rat Trap section. I'm sure your already aware of David's Gangster Inc site. There is one more I can think of now let me find the link real quick. http://www.allanrmay.com/site/7aa0693c081140819f3cf333e8710811/default?url=http%3A%2F%2Fallanrmay.com%2FShort_Stories.html#2764 This is Allan May's site, he is a contributor to Rick Porrelos American Mafia site. Which is http://www.americanmafia.com/index.htmlRick wrote 'To Kill The Irishman', the Danny Greene book that was made into a movie. There is a list of sites for researching the Mafia faithful1 has, pm him and ask for it because I simply don't want to post it as my own.
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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison
[Re: Tonytough]
#948950
08/01/18 06:28 PM
08/01/18 06:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
kingoflittlenewyork
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
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The link for Allan May's site didn't post right but you can simply type Allan May Mafia into Google and it will pop up. Also fbi.gov has a vault of FBI files that have been released over the years, they are not all about the Mafia but there is a search feature and A-Z index. Also www.maryferrell.org is imo the best site there is for researching the Mafia. It is based around the JFK assassination investigation but is full of FBI files on the Mafia. I hope this helps.
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