I don’t know what Allie knew but for Bill it would of been stupid to flex at all during that time because after Allie went away Bill would of had a much easier time if he was thinking of it .

It all could of been a little of everything Bill was great at his job and had a nice crew and had no problems earning so to me for him to do anything out norm was just stupid.
There is always just Allie using Bill being on the other side first in the war and the fact that he was boss material and earning power Allie may of just wanted to even the field .

That’s true he should’ve waited then made his move! Might’ve all been out of his control though. If he started making weak moves he would’ve lost his chance of making boss when he needed to.

Was there a backlash from any of his crew?

That Jackie DeRoss came across as an evil guy the way he intimidated the family after. Too much.

From allies point of view it was the right move in theory. Now he is paying for that “right” move forever

That's right forgot about Philly too.
Seems like Gotti tried to take everything over just about.

A lot of the power comes from the money

Those guys were earning with 3 fists.

You would walk into a club in N.Y.C. they had an enterouge at times 20-30 deep, buying Crystal, like they were movie stars.

I remember they went to the Bahamas 100 deep, crazy...

They were to BensonHURST a mini version of what Gotti was to Howard Beach.

Sorry can't answer the now questions as I am no longer around any of those guys.

The guys I know and run into from time to time really go out of there way to be invisible.

More than a handful are lending money via cash advances on down town wall street. Give it some time you will be reading about that business in the not so distant future.

After Bill, got clipped and Bills two biggest earners went away for 7-8 years, a lot of their younger guys were taken over by Lil Dino for a while, then in 2008 he got knocked and ended up getting like 50 years for trying to get the guys who killed his younger brother Frankie. Don't know where they stand now.

Scarpa' s wife had spoke to Allie Boy and told him that Wild Bill, was in the streets acting like the boss of the family.

I read that in an article somewhere.
It was a long time ago I don't remember where.

For all his flaws with being too flashy Gotti knew how to play lcn as well as anyone. He obviously had balls the size of dinosaurs;

He takes over his aging capos crew as an associate.
He manages to organise a coup against a longstanding boss who goes back Appalachin (when Gotti would’ve been a snot nosed 16 yr old)
He gets Bonannoa reinstated on the commission
He organises a civil war behind the scenes backing orena and calling for carmines resignation openly (he even had the audacity to call snake a rat for some bs reasons)
He puts Stanfa in as boss of Philly.

All from nothing. His family had no lineage in the mob and had no money coming up. All self made.

Obviously gotti been done more than anyone over and over again but he really done amazing from. Nothing. No wonder he was happy to be lifed off in his 50s.

And I’m surprised lil Dino hasn’t managed to get that 50 reduced as he skated on the murders.

And never knew about scarpas wife speaking to ally boy. How random is that was he screwing her?

Liborio,

I agree for the most part when you hear Gotti you hear how bad of a boss's he was.

Everyboss made mistakes look at the family under Castallano, there was a really big divide the family was split in two.

If you look at each respective family,
what they were all GREAT bosses compared to Gotti?

Go down line see how that looks?
Vic and Gas? Persico? Massino?
Etc... Etc..
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Scarpa'a wife I tried to find the article and could not. I believe it was under the context of her asking Allie Boy what happened to Scarpa'a money that I guess she wanted some and Allie had told her there was no money.

In the end Scarpa, was a rat however, he did help Allie, get off the hook from charges from the war, on his death bed he signed a confession that stated Persico, had no Knowledge and/or did not order any of the guys Scarpa killed to be killed.

Anyhow I believe the meeting was about that and Will Bill came up.
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As for Lil Dino.

He really got it in the ass.

1) A very close friend he grew up with wore a wire against him to help the Feds build a case. David Gordan.

2) He didn't know he was killing a cop.
That was really FUCKED up he could have faced the death penalty for it.

3) His older cousin who brought him into the life flipped on him.

4) Joey Caves a very close friend they came up together in the streets of bensonhurst flipped on him.

5) His younger brother Frankie was killed over B.S.

6) His older brother Sebby flipped on him.

7) He beats the MURDER charges and still got 50 years. UNHEARD OF. You got guys that get convicted of murder and get 20 years or multiple murders they get 30 years.

IN AMERICA?

8) He got convicted attempting to avenge his brothers death. Had it not been for that charge he would have walked out.

If his brother, cousin and best friends didn't flip he probably gets offered a sweet plea deal or would have beat the last charge as well.

He made his choices and has no one to blame but himself.

They mostly all intimidate at minimum when they is anything left of the OC family even some go after a blood family member that has something hanging over there head or any reason the get the rest of the dead guys family pay up.

Great stuff ....

It’s a horrible / great life “ when they are rolling and loving all that the life offers especially if you put your time in then start making good money but then the reaper comes calling and the dogs start flipping on blood !

Serp,

Please tell if it used to be the same down in Philly as it was here in Brooklyn.

When an associate was involved in a murder all the other associates and people in the know would all of a sudden treat that guy like he was a celebrity.

What I mean ito say a guy was involved in a hit, within a short period when the neighborhood found out about it, when he would come out to a night club, he now walked right in front of the line and not have to pay.

If he went to a restaurant he wouldn't wait for a table they would open something up for him right away.

He walked into a deli and not have to pay.

People in the neighborhood would start to worship that guy. There was a buzz "That guy is with such and such crew and he put in work"

I remember when I was a kid and worked in a deli a few blocks away from 13th ave,
and Greg Scarpa walked in and I didn't know who he was at the time. I charged him for his coffee and cigarettes,

lol the owner walked in right when Greg, walked out and almost had a heart attack he asked me what happened? I said what do you mean? He said you dont know who that is? I said no,
he said you will, he called Greg back in and I gave him his money back and apologised to him, the owner shit himself he was so scared he kept apologizing to Greg,

The same goes when a guy got his button he was the talk of the town.

Lol it's hard to explain a guy would get up his button and it felt like everyone would look up to him.

That was part of the draw in the lifestyle people don't understand how and why guys get involved.

Growing up in an Italian neighborhood these guys had it all or it certainly felt that way. The money, power, respect then the women would throw themselves at them, and the movie start treatment.

It's not like that anymore around here especially in Brooklyn, LCN doesn't have the lure it used to have that's for shit sure.

Was Scarpa really as terrifying as told? I mean in demeanor (his reputation spoke for itself)?

so allies acting boss in 1999 he made wild bill cutolo his underboss in 97 or 98 i read somwhere even bill was surprised when he was offerd the position. back to 99 is joel waverly cacace the consig. im guessing probaly cause in 2000 he wen to massino mini commission meeting representing the colombo family thats where he asked to induct a new members massino and peter gotti said 2 new guys that when big dino calabro and luca d......... were inducted in 2000

I never had any real interactions with him.
Other than him coming into the deli I used to work at.

And he was always at a local kitchenette Tony's.

When he would walk in everyone would stop. People would kiss his ass and be really nice to him.

Everyone knew his rep and his crew was huge.

On Halloween every year all the kids from the neighborhood would go bombing basically get cans if shaving cream and buy cases of eggs to throw at each other.

We would just bomb everything and everyone in sight.

Just dumb kids being dumb trying to have fun.

Scarpa'a son passed by in a car and slowed down because he thought he was invincible because of his father.

A couple of the kids threw eggs at the car.

They didn't know who he was.

I had left I wanted no part of that.
I had a bad feeling.

I walked one way towards my house. The kid Domenick walked towards 13th ave, as thats where he lived.

Scarpa'a son went to his father's crew they came back and caught up to Domenick, as he was walking home and they killed him with a shot gun.

It was a shame because that kid was such a good kid and didn't throw any eggs at the car.

Shit like that happened from time to time in the neighborhood the wiseguys, or the wannabe's would whack an innocent kid, wrong place, wrong time.

Young kids wanted to get involved in the life and be gangsters, they would get in over their heads, and there was no where to turn. You couldn't go to the cops, either you knew a wiseguy to save ur ass, or you left the neighborhood, OR..........

Damn...killing a kid over a couple of thrown eggs. That's messed up.

then greg and joey killed another 17yr old patrick porco cause he was in the car with joey and was a witness to the holloween murder. the da charge fbi agent lin d with porco murder but it was dropped. i think theres no way in hell the agent would tell greg to kill a 17 yr old who may be talking. bullshit the da was reaching. he was a dirty fbi agent like the boston guys the da just wanted headlines. how did the colombo family not put greg on the shelf if they new him and his kid are killing kids over bullshit. the whole family should have shelved them they must have known. porcos uncle was a bonanno capo. maybe greg and joey didnt tell anyone. it not mentiond in larry mazzas book

They didn't call him the "Grim Reaper" for nothing, but in regards to stories like these it looks like Scarpa's a serious contender for the title of "biggest piece of shit in the mob ever".

Hundred percent agree, but he was a brilliant earner, had a large crew of capable hitter, and wasn't afraid to do work himself.

Yes it was same deal .... it was not long before it came out .... people on here or ones that used to be on here would start all kinds of shit with me telling stuff they just could not believe it .

I don’t tell one tenth of what I know especially a with Persico’s I very very rarely do I say anything that’s not known by many (other then stuff we did up at the farm as teenagers and young men) because I still have a relationship with many of them and I can explain in a PM but not here other then I’ve known the family since early 70,s that was done by my blood the reason I know Scarf is because I grew up on Georgia ave a stone throw from them .

Definitely. When it comes to putting in work he had balls the size of watermelons and he had his fingers in all sorts of pies. Top notch gangster, but even in an environment where nobody's gonna win a humanitarian Nobel Peace prize, he stood out in the scummiest way possible.

Well he did have the go ahead on both sides of the game .... Feds were letting him kill and there was a all out war even after it ended he was so whacked out and used to it being like Wild West he could not stop even with a verbal argument or push and shove had to turn into a shootout the guy was shot out !

i forgot were i read wild bill was surprised when he was offerd the underboss position. allie could have gave it to deross or sonny franses joel cacace or any one from the persico faction i wonder if from the jump it was to make bill cutolo comfitable?rock him to sleep. or was it just allie gets busted with a gun in florida and decided to act. or was it the plan from the jump. im guessing once he was arrested for the guns he thought hed get alot more then 18months in the feds what happend to felon in poss of a firearm in a federal case being like mando 5 10 yrs. why would they offer him the sstreet boss of the colombo family 18months plea

Yeah I remember hearing his brother ratting him out. How could you inform on your own blood especially your brother?? like you said these guys made their choices and no one to blame but themselves but these guys were big boys and played deep then when things get tough Seb chooses the cowards way out. Ratting out his brother... I would never forgive him. I wouldn't be surprised if Dino did a Michael Corleone on him

I didn't know his close friends and cousins ratted him out too.

Yeah he REALLY got it in the ass. Surprised he didn't roll too but decided to face his 50. What a man. Another Sonny in the making haha

i still believe jack deross got fucked in the butt. he's a capo wild bill disapears. the boss tells him to go to wild bills family and try to collect loansharking records and money. he gets neither. allie bumps him to underboss. we find out in tommy gioelis trial it was him and his crew who did the murder , picked bill up and deposed of his body. how come deross lawyers cant get him some type of appeal or he should have beat it at trial. i would called darco asked him who can order the underbosses murder only a boss rite ? then get the fbi to say when bill goes missing deross is just a capo. he shouldnt have been tried next to the boss who orderd the murder its spillover

Deross was in on the plot he wasn't innocent he was the one who approached Joe Campanella first and tried to get him to set up Wild Bill.

The feds got the how Bill, got whacked story wrong and the who actually did the work wrong however, they got the main players behind the scenes correct.

And going to the house tje.next day that was a grimy move.

Wild Bill was no fool I am sure he had MILLIONS stacked away.

The family told the Feds they found $1,500,000 of his money.

No way that was it.

He was adamant about not giving any money to whoever, asked from the columbo's he prepared his family on what to say and they listened.

That's just my opinion.

If that were me I would NOT keep my last $1,500,000 In one spot if the feds came in the get the whole thing one shot.

I would $1,500,000 In the duct and then another $500,000 In basement etc.

Lil Dino stuck by omerta he is a man's man when we were kids everyone used to call him Dino Ba-Ba, he wanted to be gangster from way back then.

I guess he did it.

And all that goes with it.

What a shame

You need to do some pro bono work for these guys.

I'll suck you if you'll let me live sir. Please don't kill me! PLEASE!

They went to his house the day after whacking him? If that’s true that’s disgraceful wow

You are right it is..
Could you imagine that was you and your family?

They sent someone knocking on your walls, basically you know these guys killed your husband, father etc..
And they threatened to kill the son, Deross said to the wife "You know your lucky, in the old days they killed the son along with the father"

You can't blame the mother and sisters for flipping, how else could they fight back?

The son Jr. he is a different story

When his dad was alive and on the streets of Bensonhurst he was a big tuff guy, the first one to throw a punch, it was real easy when your dad was a powerful CAPO that was feared by many, and he had a crew of killers behind him.

His dad gets clipped and he runs to WITSEC, he wasn't so tuff anymore...
He lost the ARMY he had behind him, he had to stand for himself.

Didn't Sammy Gravano beat up Joe Colombo's son when they were kids?

Yes I’m sure I read this somewhere. Was it in a cinema or something?

And then didn’t joe call him in a few days later but didn’t hurt him

The Christmas Verdict: How Colombo Mafia family leader “Wild Bill” Cutolo got the present he wished for http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profil...-colombo-mafia-family-leader-wild-bill-c