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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: antimafia]
#953723
09/21/18 06:26 PM
09/21/18 06:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 411
NickleCity
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 411
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9. A kill-or-be-killed scenario in which the Iavarone group decided it had to kill Angelo Musitano because a member of the group owed Angelo a large gambling debt and was being squeezed by Angelo for a stake in the group's gambling activities. (A still very credible theory as to why Pat and Angelo Musitano arranged to have Papalia killed is the large gambling debt Pat owed Johnny.)
Edwards article said: "Prior to his death, Musitano was owed money from a man involved in gambling who worked for New York State mobsters, a source said." Assuming NYS mobsters is another term for Buffalo Mob in this article---like it seems to me---Did Iavarone's group work for Buffalo mob which was running this gambling ring? Let's quote more extensively from Edwards's article: Some of Iavarone’s underworld ties were south of the border, sources said.
“The recently deceased had ties to New York,†a former police investigator said.
“Buffalo factions of Traditional Organized Crime are not ‘in’ Canada per se, but historically have controlled aspects of Canadian ‘family business’ and do get kickbacks from profits from illicit activity,†Manning said.
Prior to his death, Musitano was owed money from a man involved in gambling who worked for New York State mobsters, a source said.
When he demanded payment or a piece of the gambling operation, he was murdered by a crew of Niagara Region men connected to the gambler, the sources said.
None of the men involved in the Angelo Musitano murder were actual mob members, leaving them vulnerable to retaliation, the source said.
They have already been cut astray by the New York mob, a police source said.
“They have no backing,†the source said._______________ Did Iavarone have ties to numerous criminals in the US? only to the Italian underworld in the US? only to the Buffalo underworld? only to a New York City mafia family? Was the former police investigator being precise when he said Iavarone "had ties to New York"? Or was the source being careful not to mention Buffalo by generally saying "New York" so as to refer to the whole state? Is Albert Iavarone the gambler who worked for New York State mobsters? Was he related to the gambler? Were the two of them part of the same crime group? We now know the names of three individuals charged in the murder of Angelo Musitano. Were these three the ones who were cut astray by the New York mob? by mobsters in Buffalo? Were these three individuals in the same crime group as Iavarone? Did Iavarone lose backing by the New York mob? by mobsters in Buffalo? Yeah, so complicated. I definitely have bias in the Buffalo direction, so I'm going to read that into the article. That is why I love these sites to keep me thinking about things form multiple angles. When I'm not in "Buffalo Mode" I keep coming back to the "Todaro Syndicate" idea but forth by Sergi,... Is this something like the East Coast LCN Enterprise that Merlino got caught up in? Is this going to become the norm? Is this why Sergi said Buffalo is no long LCN?
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: Stubbs]
#953751
09/21/18 11:41 PM
09/21/18 11:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 61
BronaZora
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 61
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I think looking at Hamilton/Buffalo, etc. through the lens of American LCN groups is incorrect. It's clear what's going on is involving groups that are structured differently than traditional, LCN groups who have a hierarchy structured like a pyramid. These may not be groups operating in a specific territory like the American LCN. I believe these are groups are more like drug trafficking networks and cut across both territories and mafia allegiances. So, if there is mafia activity in Buffalo in 2018, to look at Buffalo as structured like a traditional LCN family may be wrong. We don't know if mobsters there include a mix of Todaro, Ndrangheta from Calabria, and Calabrians from Hamilton's families like Violis. Or the made guys flying the Todaro flag may be Canadians aligned with the Violis who were made in Buffalo. When they say "Hamilton answers to Buffalo", we don't really know the full extent of what that means yet: Who in Buffalo? Hamilton gangsters under the Todaro/Buffalo flag or Italian-American made guys in Buffalo? Same thing with Hamilton: Hamilton seems to have 2 or 3 groups fighting for power right now, but there could also be Bonannos and Gambinos in the area (associates or members) working with some of the groups there. With busts in New York lately we've seen connections of the Ndrangheta working with the Gambinos, so it's likely there's a decent amount of collaboration for drug trafficking. Which is why we've had reports of Bonannos doing making ceremonies in Canada. When drugs are involved, it's not really about controlling a territory so much as about making connections in several different places and groups in order to facilitate the drug shipments. Cabrini has discussed this several times before, especially when discussing the Partinico faction in Detroit from back in the day (also known as the lower Sicilian group). Similar to how the Cherry Hill Gambinos crew had made guys in both the US Gambino Family and in the families in Sicily. What were seeing is a continuation of the huge power shift away from the Sicilian Mafia and toward the Ndrangheta. Now with the Rizzuto's weakened (but not completely defeated) in Montreal, their allies in Hamilton.. the Musitanos... are under attack. Even though the Musitanos are Calabrian with connections back to the old country, there's obviously other Ndrangheta groups trying to take control of Toronto and Hamilton seems to be a proxy for the war in Toronto. From that article that was just posted: “It’s definitely a Calabrian/’Ndrangheta Mafia War,†well-known mob observer James Dubro told The Toronto Sun. “It’s three or four cells competing for cocaine routes and power in the GTA. This is very big.†This is pretty spot on, when you think of Canadian organized crime, it's very diverse in comparison to the US. People need to understand that Mafia business in Canada is dangerous because you have actual families who have ties back to Italy that are fighting to control the drug market. Laws in Canada are a joke so these guys operate with little pressure and killing is a whole lot easier north of the border, so it's often used to eliminate competition. The US families on the other hand cannot operate with such freedom, that's why mob wars are not as common in the US these days. The thing to keep in mind is the US is a huge drug market, and the Canadians are fighting to control the trade and also keeping connections with the families down the US to distribute. That's why you hear about the Gambinos doing business with Calabrian mobsters in Toronto, and it's also the reason why Canadian mobsters in general keep contact with US mobsters, the two sides need one another. Seeing all this chaos, one must respect how smart and powerful Vito Rizzuto was, when he was around and in power, he kept the region quiet for most part and everyone operated for a very long time. I wonder if we will ever see a powerful figure rise up again to take control.
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: bronx]
#953759
09/22/18 07:06 AM
09/22/18 07:06 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,679 Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,679
Chicago
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I gotta say, this is the best thread I've read in a LOOONG ass time, great job everyone!
Great discussion, no bullshit, all facts and educated opinions, everything sourced, this is how it should be.
I'll say something else, I've been on black hand forum, and you guys over here have a MUCH BETTER HANDLE of the topic than the guys over there. Despite having really great researchers, and all the shit talking they do, they are just kinda clueless here. It's like a tyranny of a minority...
Big respect to anti mafia, Hollander, and ciment. Consistently on the money with all things Canada, and international OC....
@ BronaZora @ Stubbs
I saw you guys post and my brain immediately stopped hurting, lol!! Y'all voiced everything I've felt and think about the situation, that I've been unsuccessfully babbling about for about three years, carry on fellas, this fuckin thread made my day!!!
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: bronx]
#953796
09/22/18 04:31 PM
09/22/18 04:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,277
Ciment
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,277
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https://torontosun.com/news/crime/crime-hunter-dont-give-mafia-last-rites-just-yetCRIME HUNTER: Don't give Mafia last rites just yet Police have repeatedly alluded to a power struggle among the established Calabrese clans in the GTA and newer ‘Ndrà ngheta upstarts. “Many ‘Ndrangheta cells in GTA and Italy are involved in a violent fight,†Dubro said. “This is a big story of a major and very deadly Calabrian mob fight for coke territory and power in GTA/southern Ontario.†Dubro adds that it’s all connected. He suggested an Iavarone relative may have pulled the trigger on Ang Musitano and it’s payback on drugs and a personal beef. “There’s lots of moving parts in this mob war — a complex cast of characters from the GTA, Italy, USA, Mexico and Canada.â€
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: Hollander]
#953801
09/22/18 05:19 PM
09/22/18 05:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 411
NickleCity
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 411
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Author and former RCMP analyst Pierre de Champlain said a possibility is that international Italian Mafia organizations such as Sicilian Cosa Nostra and 'Ndrangheta are fighting from abroad to get control over Canada's mafia in order to gain control over drug trafficking. I'd like to learn more about this. Can yo point me the right direction?
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: Ciment]
#953804
09/22/18 05:33 PM
09/22/18 05:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 411
NickleCity
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 411
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https://torontosun.com/news/crime/crime-hunter-dont-give-mafia-last-rites-just-yetCRIME HUNTER: Don't give Mafia last rites just yet Police have repeatedly alluded to a power struggle among the established Calabrese clans in the GTA and newer ‘Ndrà ngheta upstarts. “Many ‘Ndrangheta cells in GTA and Italy are involved in a violent fight,†Dubro said. “This is a big story of a major and very deadly Calabrian mob fight for coke territory and power in GTA/southern Ontario.†Dubro adds that it’s all connected. He suggested an Iavarone relative may have pulled the trigger on Ang Musitano and it’s payback on drugs and a personal beef. “There’s lots of moving parts in this mob war — a complex cast of characters from the GTA, Italy, USA, Mexico and Canada.†The piece says: "We were a little too quick on the trigger to give traditional organized crime its last rites." "Are we returning to the bad, bloody days of the Mafia"--with a picture of mob hit in upstate NY from 1970. ...“There’s lots of moving parts in this mob war — a complex cast of characters from the GTA, Italy, USA, Mexico and Canada.â€...Dead? ...Not by a long shot." Is the author of this article suggesting the Mob may be behind the Farm Massacre in 2016? Are we being told the Mob across all its organizations and regions of operations is much more powerful than LE and Journalists had given credit? Or just a little hyperbole to sell copy? What do you all think? ... Have we not given enough attention to OC? Has it come back with a vengeance not just in Canada, but the US and Southern Italy and Sicily? Anyone hearing rumblings? Anyone else?
Last edited by NickleCity; 09/22/18 05:45 PM.
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: NickleCity]
#953811
09/22/18 07:49 PM
09/22/18 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,277
Ciment
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,277
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https://torontosun.com/news/crime/crime-hunter-dont-give-mafia-last-rites-just-yetCRIME HUNTER: Don't give Mafia last rites just yet Police have repeatedly alluded to a power struggle among the established Calabrese clans in the GTA and newer ‘Ndrà ngheta upstarts. “Many ‘Ndrangheta cells in GTA and Italy are involved in a violent fight,†Dubro said. “This is a big story of a major and very deadly Calabrian mob fight for coke territory and power in GTA/southern Ontario.†Dubro adds that it’s all connected. He suggested an Iavarone relative may have pulled the trigger on Ang Musitano and it’s payback on drugs and a personal beef. “There’s lots of moving parts in this mob war — a complex cast of characters from the GTA, Italy, USA, Mexico and Canada.†The piece says: "We were a little too quick on the trigger to give traditional organized crime its last rites." "Are we returning to the bad, bloody days of the Mafia"--with a picture of mob hit in upstate NY from 1970. ...“There’s lots of moving parts in this mob war — a complex cast of characters from the GTA, Italy, USA, Mexico and Canada.â€...Dead? ...Not by a long shot." Is the author of this article suggesting the Mob may be behind the Farm Massacre in 2016? Are we being told the Mob across all its organizations and regions of operations is much more powerful than LE and J had given credit? Or just a little hyperbole to sell copy? What do you all think? ... Have we not given enough attention to OC? Has it come back with a vengeance not just in Canada, but the US and Southern Italy and Sicily? Anyone hearing rumblings? Anyone else? I believe the massacre to be a separate article. It is very hard to get in the mind of the person that wrote the article because frequently journalists are not specific enough. I think he got a little overzealous because of the warring going on in Canada. Back in the 70's there wasn't a heavy presence of the Ndrangheta that it now commands. By this mere fact it is changing the dynamics among OC groups and interrelations between countries such as Italy, Canada and the USA. I do not think the warring will spill over to the US. The Ndrangheta prefer working with existing OC rather than warring with them. A good example is the Gambino family and other NY families already doing business with the Ndrangheta. The problem you have in Ontario is two fold. Firstly, the war between the Sicilians and Calabrians in Montreal has spilled over to Ontario. Please note that there are some Calabrians also fighting along side with the Sicilians as well. I chose to use Sicilians vs Calabrians to ease my depiction of the situation but there are other Italians who are neither and non Italians that are also part of the feud. and Secondly, according to the news media, there is warring between some of the Ndrangheta clans in Ontario. Many journalist give us little hints here and there but for the most part we have to figure things out on our own; it is for this reason that I do not profess to know it all and what I have just explained is my opinion and there may be others that may see things differently. I am open minded to learning new theories or opinions.
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: Ciment]
#953821
09/22/18 08:49 PM
09/22/18 08:49 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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Dubro adds that it’s all connected. He suggested an Iavarone relative may have pulled the trigger on Ang Musitano and it’s payback on drugs and a personal beef. Wait a second, haven't the actual people directly involved in the Musitano murder been named now, with Cudmore believed to have pulled the trigger? How is he related to Lavarone? I believe they only suggested that his brother was somehow involved but not part of the actual hit squad? Contrary to the past I'm not that informed about all these details, and there's lots of them this time (which is quite unusual). I guess too much leaked out and they reacted like this in order to keep control over the situation.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: Hollander]
#953823
09/22/18 09:18 PM
09/22/18 09:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 411
NickleCity
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 411
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#953824
09/22/18 10:01 PM
09/22/18 10:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 61
BronaZora
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 61
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Dubro adds that it’s all connected. He suggested an Iavarone relative may have pulled the trigger on Ang Musitano and it’s payback on drugs and a personal beef. Wait a second, haven't the actual people directly involved in the Musitano murder been named now, with Cudmore believed to have pulled the trigger? How is he related to Lavarone? I believe they only suggested that his brother was somehow involved but not part of the actual hit squad? Contrary to the past I'm not that informed about all these details, and there's lots of them this time (which is quite unusual). I guess too much leaked out and they reacted like this in order to keep control over the situation. No, Iavarone was not part of the hit squad, unlike American mobsters, Canadian mobsters rarely do the hits themselves, they always go through layers so it does not trace back to them. In fact theres a good chance that Iavarone was nothing more than an associate and not an actual made guy himself, he or his sibling may have been the one that hired this hit squad for the actual mobsters (Possibly the Luppinos/Violis/Pappalias). Al Iavarone worked in the same real estate firm as a person by the name of Giacomo Luppino. Not sure if this specific Luppino is involved in OC or just related, but it's most likely an indication that Iavarone was connected with the Luppinos.
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Re: another mob guy murdered
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#953839
09/23/18 05:00 AM
09/23/18 05:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,277
Ciment
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,277
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Dubro adds that it’s all connected. He suggested an Iavarone relative may have pulled the trigger on Ang Musitano and it’s payback on drugs and a personal beef. Wait a second, haven't the actual people directly involved in the Musitano murder been named now, with Cudmore believed to have pulled the trigger? How is he related to Lavarone? I believe they only suggested that his brother was somehow involved but not part of the actual hit squad? Contrary to the past I'm not that informed about all these details, and there's lots of them this time (which is quite unusual). I guess too much leaked out and they reacted like this in order to keep control over the situation. Yes, there are elements to these articles that are being fed to the public that does not seem to make sense. Cudmore supposedly is working for Ranieri who in turn works for the Rizzuto's. The Musitano's were said to be allied with the Rizzuto's. Then why are they fighting each other ? Furthermore, the Iavarone's seem to have ties to the Luppino/Violi clan then how is it possible that Lavarone and Cudmore, who are supposedly enemies, both be involved in Angelo Musitano's murder ? Did some of them switch sides ? There are many unanswered questions.
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