I was thinking about this a month ago and now I'm posting a thread. In their heyday, pre-RICO statute, during the era so good they could be covered in film and not be arrested, how did each branch of LCN rank in terms of influence? The definition is up to you. That could include membership or be limited to sheer influence (Carlos Marcello had few members and huge national interests). Let's assume there's 26 families. Just an idea: Roughly the 40s to late 60s.

TIER 1
Genovese
Gambino
Lucchese
Bonanno
Colombo
Chicago Outfit

TIER 2
Detroit Partnership
Philadelphia Crime Family
Buffalo Crime Family

TIER 3
Santo Trafficante Crime Family (small but very powerful internationally)
New Orleans Crime Family (comparable to Trafficante)
Patriarca Crime Family

TIER 4
Bufalino
Pittsburgh
Los Angeles
Kansas City
Cleveland

TIER 5
The rest

Genuinely curious to hear other people's opinions. Additionally I've always been interested when mafiosi operate in other states. Years ago we used to talk about the Gambino Maryland (Baltimore) crew. Pittsburgh was active in West Virginia (The south of all places). I know KC in the 50's was operating gambling hotels in Idaho and weird places. Once, it was truly a national crime syndicate.

I'd probably put the New England family under Ray Sr as Tier 2 at least.

"Once, it was truly a national crime syndicate."
yes...
and i wonder what really brought them down ?
rats ?
rico ?
more non italian crime groups to compete ?
in the recent years it's seems like they started to rebuild themselves but still they will never be like they used to be in the 40s - till early 70s
maybe they will be like they used to be in the late 80s before the the big fall in the 90s

btw great thread !!!

New England is definitely tier 2 imo. Philly at their peak are close to tier 1, but maybe not entirely.

Was philly at thier peak with bruno or scarfo?

de cavalcante and new england in tier 2, it's logic that all the families that still exists were in tier 2

Detroit should be tier 1 in the pre-Rico days. Hoffa according to rules belonged to Detroit, even though he clearly had liaisons in other places. We're talking the Teamsters nationwide, who were involved with the development of almost everything then.

Buffalo should be tier one just for the fact that Maggadino was on the original commission.

Trafficante and Marcello, with their connections to Costello and Lansky should be tier 2. Trafficante is arguably tier 1 in the 50s. Solidly connected to NY and was the primary liaison to pre Castro Cuba and the casinos.

Bufalino probably tier 2, same reasons as Detroit. Hoffa.

Tier 4 seems low for KC, Pittsburgh and Cleveland in the 50's and 60s. KC was powerful through teamsters, Vegas connections as late as the 80s.

New England has to be in tier two......

tier 2 is the philly fam new england and the decavs there all surposed to be around 50 members. the chicago and detroit whole nother world from the northeast

surposely there was the midwest commission chicago was the nyc 5 families and told kansas milwakee st louis i think detroit and la what to do. little forgotten fact everyone and gamibino in the 60tys respected the no orleans family and let them do them. they intervened in the la stella thing in queens

I would think Chicago. They had more reach into Vegas by all accounts, plus had their own city to themselves as far as LCN competition.

Scarfo vs Bruno: Scarfo had AC, but didn't Bruno have international reach? Trafficante had all of Florida and prior to Castro, a big grasp on Cuba. Wasn't the Lord high executioner beefing with him for control of the casinos. I'm almost certain that Trafficante left N.Y.the same day he was gunned down. Trafficante tier one prior to Castro.

Trafficante did in fact have the strongest ties to Cuba other than perhaps Lansky. As I understand it, Trafficante controlled the gambling on the whole Gulf Coast of the United States and Marcello had the land going as far as Dallas, Texas, where the Civello family operated under his flag. They both had 20-50 men but still had so much reach it's incredible.

I put Buffalo as second tier because their membership was always the highest behind the new york families and Chicago depending on how you count it.

The government targeted chicago after the kefauver committee more than any other family. So at that time they might've been

Probably because that's when they realized the Outfit controlled just about the entire country.

Buffalo definitely tier 1: Magaddino had a lot of power, especially before Appalachin and even after when you consider he was wrestling his cousin Joe for control over Montreal.

every family from the 50's back

I would say that the Genovese from the 30's through the 50's were the most powerful family, possibly the most powerful of all time. They had the obvious interests in Cuba and Las Vegas, and they were probably the biggest family in South Florida at that time. Mike Coppola was big in New Port ,Kentucky, Charles Tourine had Joe Nesline in DC, and Costello was in New Orleans. During that time their top associate Lansky was his most prolific, setting up new ventures seemingly everywhere. One of their capos, Tony Pro, was running the biggest Teamsters local in the country. They worked very closely with Chicago, who I would say was a close second at that time. After Appalachian and Genovese going to jail I would say that Chicago probably jumped to the top in the early 60's, even though I am not sure that there was that there was much of a drop off with the Catena, Miranda, Eboli triumvirate running the day to day. The Gambinos also started to work their way up to the level of the Genovese starting in the early sixties. I would give Chicago the nod from about 1960 through 1970, then the Genovese, Chicago and Gambinos were virtually interchangeable until the early to mid 80's. Then Chicago lost Vegas and Castellano got hit, and from that point forward it has been the Genovese.

Assuming that the NYC families and Chicago operated on a different level, I would put Detroit, Buffalo, Philly and New England in the next tier. Strong bosses who were all on the Commission at one time or another, international interests and strong manpower. Slightly below that I would put Cleveland, who I think that many people overlook. They had Moe Dalitz as an associate, which meant big interests in Vegas and Cuba, they were very powerful with the Teamsters, and had a strong presence in South Florida, Youngstown and Newport. They were also very well connected to the Genovese. I think that because they fell apart so quickly people forget how powerful and well connected they were at their peak.

My next tier would be New Orleans and Tampa, not so much because of the power of the families but the power of the bosses and their connections with other mobsters across the country. The Decvalacantes would follow them, they were strong despite being in the shadow of NYC and Philly.

My bottom tier would be KC, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Northeast PA, all families that had their moments but never quite on the level of the families in the higher tiers.

Any Detroit experts know how strong they were from the 30s - 60s? We all know the Teamsters connections, labor connections, auto connections but they were so underground I don't think the average poster is familiar with all their made men (like they would be with Lucchese, etc).

How did the narcotics trade work back then? It seems like each family had one member who was HUGE in drugs and the rank and file soldiers were dissuaded under penalty of death from dealing.

I'd put LA and Cleveland in tier 3 because they were twice the size of NO and Tampa, and Cleveland was also involved in Vegas. Agreed for the rest. Good to see you back.

any New Orlens experts here??I thinkk at its peak under Marcello they could of been Teir 1 i mean theres even allegations that he was involved in the jfk assisnation.I wonder how they went from that to now being nothing

Very interesting topic...here's an aside... with respect to lower tiers... anyone know when the FBI actually had operations against these families or made members in these lesser tier locales?

Any one have any information on Denver and the Smaldone family? I wouldn't consider them a family per say or being on a tier. But besides bootlegging what were they really involved in?

I would say that the Smaldone's/Denver organization was indeed a viable family back in the day. They had quite a few guys under them, it wasn't just the Smaldone's and a couple of cronies. They had bookmaking and gambling operations as well, the usual mob bread and butter rackets.

https://a.spirited.media/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/11/171106-GAETANOS-KEVINJBEATY-13.jpg

Here's a link to an old hierarchy type list Hopefully the link works.

I would still consider them as tier 5 though.

Scarfo /Bruno...this is very debatable...Bruno had farther reach, more top connections (Carlo etc..)junkets, real estate & def more respect ...money??? mmm..thats a good one ..Scarfo had major $$$$..closest ally was only Bobby Manna..what do u guys say?

Wow! That is cool. I think the Smaldones were just the most flamboyant crew. Up until the 70's even old Sicilian guys were the dons of the family. I would say they were comparable to the Lanzas (SF) or San Jose. There's books out there.

In my opinion St Louis operated under the Detroit family due to all the intermarriage.

The families west of Chicago were at their peak during prohibition, before they were even recognized by what is now the commission. The commission sided with the most business savvy factions of these families in their inner-conflicts. Variations of the Castellammarese War took place in cities nationwide.

@oaksfan

It's amusing how people try to over look Chicago's dominance in the crime world from the 40s to the 80s

Chicago had the backing of the midwest mobs just like new york had the east coast mobs. And the midwest had the more influential unions. That's why the feds focused on Chicago so hard during the late 50s thru 80s

Giacomo said once before that the Outfit in the 60's and 70's I believe was more powerful than any organized crime group ever in the states.