Yeah i agree. The delusion in those tapes really make me fall out of my chair lol

So it's getting to the point where people [Bruce Mouw] are being libelled now re: the racketeer comment. Websites have gotten sued for less than that. Just for future reference, there is a difference between calling a mobster a criminal and calling someone with no connection to organised crime, other than prosecuting gangsters, a criminal. You can't do that! It's like me finding out JCrusher's real name and saying [he] sells drugs.

And people like Gotti hardly made a place like Howard Beach a safe haven from crime. It was a no go area for black people as recently as the early 90's. This is multicultural New York for God's sake, not Mississippi in the 40's.

Absolutely. According to some ALL FBI and cops had an agenda i guess and were the real criminals lol.

Exactly.

Gotti was so likable because he was a good dancer.

That's a good point. But it's also worth mentioning that during Gotti's heyday the internet didn't exist, there was no 24 hour news cycle, no books written about him and most people's reference point when it came to the mob were brief blurbs in the newspaper or movies that were already somewhat dated, such as The Godfather.

I suspect a lot of people weren't fully aware of the depraved realities surrounding Gotti, such as having his innocent neighbor brutally murdered, or flooding communities with drugs, or committing and ordering murders wholesale etc.

People probably actually thought he was a supply salesman and that it wasn't just a front!

You can't blame people for not being as educated about stuff like that when they didn't have access to all the details and facts that we have at our fingertips now.

Anyone else think it's strange that when Frank Abagnale scammed people they made a movie glamorising it and cast Leonardo Di Caprio as Abagnale, and when Bernie Madoff did the same thing he was pilloried and they cast decrepit raving lunatic Robert De Niro as Madoff?

You know... while we're on the subject of real life Robin Hood figures. It's been a while since I watched it but they were pushing Abagnale pretty hard as a loveable scamp in Catch Me If You Can.

Literally every criminal that didn't rat or accept a plea deal has done this very same thing, from mobsters to 7 Eleven robbers. Gotti looked more like a Wall Street shark than a mobster. The bosses in the commission trial looked like grandparents. Gotti looked like Gordon Gekko. The media took to him, gave him a rebel status by calling him "The Teflon Don", and made him a star.

They could have called Tony Ducks and Fat Tony "teflon dons", too. It took forever to bring those guys down. But they looked like they could have been in the movie Cocoon with Wilford Brimley and Don Ameche, so the media found no appeal in them other than that they were mobsters. But John...with his compulsiveness and selfishness...that's locked up in that fucking head of his...the media pounced on him.

If you're trying to scare me it won't work. As if Bruce Mouw is going to sue me and the site. I called him what he is, a crook. He exaggerated and built up Gotti into something bigger than he was before he was boss and contributed to his fame (which drives you up a wall) after he was boss. Bruce Mouw is also a public figure. Meanwhile you are making it personal again. Mind your business and leave me alone.


You also don't know this city, Howard Beach had Balck residents then Gotti lived there, and though they were. small minority, aside from the famous case of. fight made into a racial incident by Al Sharpton, it was. a safer area for Black people than their own neighborhoods. I hate talking race, but you had to go and play the race angle in your desperation to get after Gotti.

You guys be nice mouw...

Jace, I would like to ask out of genuine curiosity: why are trying to make an angel out of Gotti and some other gangsters? You are not just pointing out their "positive" qualities, but you clearly chose to ignore any crimes they committed. Why? Is murder, extortion, drug dealing or whatever so insignificant in your opinion? Also, you blame law enforcement for the methods they use to put gangsters away, but what do you think about law enforcement members who take bribes from organized crime and look the other way or help them?

And don't interpret is as a personal attack please (just in case), it's a normal question.

Good Post. Ive asked the same question. I dont particularly care but its better to just be honest about it.

I am in no way making an angel out of him The thread is about why he was liked by so many people. I discuss it without feeling the need to point out every other sentence that he committed crimes. Where did I make him an angel? Show me. I stuck to the topic, and had to go through all sorts of crap like pointing out that if a gangster like Galante was called likable I'd disagree. Where do you get me making him an angel?

Supposedly Tony Ducks hated his guts which isnt surprising

If you don't think he is an angel or admire him, then maybe I misunderstood some things you said, but what I meant is that you didn't seem to blame Gotti for anything at all. He ordered murders, and even if he did some good things too, I don't believe he was being sincere, but that he just wanted to cover his crimes. Gangsters often help their communities, Gotti wasn't neither the first nor the last to do so. I am not trying to force my opinion on you, but that's what I think about mob "godfathers".

Yup exactly these guys dont give two shits about the community other than exploiting it for their gain

Wrong, I will take the word of the people there over a person who wasn't. No one in Ozone Park felt exploited, they loved him. There had to be reason and it could not be him exploiting them.

Im sure you were one of them

No problem, I understand you, but I am just trying to stick to why so many found him likable. Do you have any idea why those who knew him who were civilians liked him so much?

Wrong, I will take the word of the people there over a person who wasn't. No one in Ozone Park felt exploited, they loved him. There had to be reason and it could not be him exploiting them.

Im sure you were one of them

I hope that is sarcasm. I did not live in New York when he was alive. I go by the many interviews I have seen and read of people who knew him.

Hey jace I didnt want anything to get heated beyween us. Ive always valued your knowledge. However I come from a family of police officers in New York and are also an italian american family. So thats wht I dont respect these type of people particularly gotti.

Of course, no problem JC.

. In fact, you just got likable.

Cool. I mean i was just trying to be honest from what ive heard. I wasnt a Howard Beach resident but my father did work as a cop in the city where a lot of mob figures were including the bergin crew. Even people who he talked to or his fellow cops talked seemed to"like" gotti but it was more fear. He described it to me as "battered wife syndrome"

Jace

I like Conor McGregor but I can admit that he got his ass beat tonight. You like John Gotti. Why can't you admit that he is what he is, a scumbag and criminal?

What are your opinions on Gotti having his neighbor murdered when he wasn't in the life, Jace? What are your opinions on Gotti and his crew flooding the neighborhood he "protected" with drugs? What are your opinions on Gotti and his crew hijacking and extorting his fellow Italian Americans? What are your opinions that this man never worked an honest day in his life, getting up at noon every day. A man who was such a terrible provider for his family, which his wife often complained about by the way, that he smuggled his family out of the hospital when his child was born because he was too broke from being a deadbeat gambler to pay his hospital bills.

And I reiterate, you cannot slander people online and call them criminals when you have absolutely no evidence and are unwilling to provide any, as usual. I don't agree with the public figure thing either. George Anastasia talks about mobsters for a living. I can't go online and say he runs a bookmaking and extortion operation a) because it's nonsense and b) because if he got wind of it he could have the site taken down/pursue legal action. "Public figure" isn't a blanket term that protects you from saying whatever you want about people, believe it or not.

If you think you are beyond reproach for doing it that's one thing, but you could get the owners of the website in trouble.

Wasn't a black man the victim of a modern day lynching by Gotti supporters back in 1986? Plus he had his neighbor dissolved in acid. And he wasn't in the life. If I was a resident of that part of New York I would have Stockholm syndrome too when it comes to these people.

What about the guy who accidentally ran over Gotti's kid? Didn't he get killed? If the neighborhood was okay with that, then it just goes to show how messed up that neighborhood was at the time. Who cares if they supported Gotti? Being intimidated can look a lot like support. They were scared to death of Gotti. That's why they "loved" him.

That was John Favara. Of course nobody knows how his demise truly went like, but it's rumored he was pummeled with a baseball bat, dismembered with a chainsaw before he was dissolved in acid. It crosses into sadism territory.

Gangsters can be nice enough on a superficial level, but once you cross a certain line of relation and they got you in their pocket, they often won't be so nice anymore. It's their line of work.

Except he didnt cross a line it was just an accident. If you are driving when the sun is going down it can be very tough to see. Add to the fact that a dumpster was put in to the street, and add to that fact that a kid darts out from it out of nowhere there was nothing the poor guy can do. Thats how ive heard it and my father has heard from officers involved in that situation. The whole "favara was drunk and evil" nonsense was just something the gotti women made up. The Favara family was also harrassed during that time and even after john favara was already killed. Janet Favara was harassed by victoria gotti and they were also sent a box of excrement. The only gotti who has been somewhat honest about that situation has been junior. He says he was friends with Scott Favara and liked the family. Did he really mean that? Who knows but I take his word for it because he was indeed friends with Scott

It definitely was an accident. There wasn't anything he could've done.
The second part of my comment was more meant as a general statement. You cross a certain line of involvement with a gangster - like getting into debt with them or making them feel like you owe them something (and both things can happen faster than you think) - there's basically no turning back.