For what it’s worth, Joe Fosco estimated there were 40-50 made guys in the Outfit circa 2012.

This has been discussed extensively on these boards. The takeaway is that at least half of those who can be identified, e.g. reconciled with the FBI’s older list of 28, are now tilting toward the deep side of geriatric.

Anyway, as far as I know that is the most relevant and probably unbiased guesstimate made in recent years, since the FBI is keeping quiet.

This is n old chart but very well done.If you erase the dead members,can easly had a stime of the Outfit members numerber.

sicilian mafia is stronger than ndrangheta in canada, that's what i mean, ndrangheta is not so strong as they claim and it has not any role in montreal war and probably even in ontario war

M2w, I do not prefer the ndrangheta to verify the sicilian mafia or anything, but I am curious to what makes you believe that the sicilians are more powerful? They definitely were during Vito Rizzuto's reign, but now the ndrangheta as a whole is bigger than the sicilians as a whole in Canada.

the fact that ndrangheta is currently the strongest italian oc group it doesnt mean that it is stronger everywhere, in canasa and usa sicilian mafia is stronger, there is not any valid proof it's involved in montreal war, probably not even present in montreal, although they claimed it since the beginning and even in ontario is not dominant in my opinion
ndrangheta is stronger in north italy, germany, australia and other places, but not north america

I lived in Woodbridge (Toronto suburb) for most of life, and it's almost all Calabrese guys there with the social clubs and gambling in non descript industrial areas, ect. Sicilians have a small presence but not as much as Calabrese. Montreal is different. However all of Ontario is influenced by ndrangheta, like even thunder Bay and places up north have people there. All these guys are interelated, they don't rat, and they are very tight knit. I don't know how you can say sicilians are dominant in Ontario, what sicilians are you talking about? You can DM me if you want to say names there.

Sicilian mafia have bigger presence in Canada,but 'Ndrangheta is more powerful. 'Ndrangheta is dominant group in South America, that means unending supply of cocaine to their canadian friends

i don't think so sicilian mafia is strongly connected with politicians, businessmen etc. it is not only larger but more powerful too, that's my opinion anyway, i could be wrong of course
being more connected with cartels it doesn't mean always to be more powerful, there are several groups importing cocaine in canada, including sicilians, not only ndrangheta

Talking about Sicilians, does anyone know if the Outfit has ever had some sort of a “zip” crew like some crime families back east? I know that Detroit allegedly has had a tiny Sicilian faction.

By going through the chart posted by Furio, I see a lot of guys with Italian first & last names. Now I’m well aware that Italian-American are quite traditional, so it’s not uncommon to meet a 4th generation Italian with an Italian first name, but this had me wondering.

Also, who is Vincenzo Ercolino the chart allegeds as the “Italian operative”?

I know that the Northwestern suburbs have had a constant flow of Italian immigrants (mostly Sicilians) in the last twenty years...

EDIT:
On a side note: What are the chances that non-Outfit affiliated Italian criminal crews have been operating around Chicagoland? We know this is happening all around North America. Why not Chicago?

At the beginning the Outfit was formed with the unification of a dozen Italian and non-Italian gangs or mobs and one of them was the Sicilian Mafia. Since they had more than one conflict with the Caponites, still the whole situation was stabilized forever when Ross Prio became the boss of the so-called semi-Sicilian faction or whats left of them aka the North Side Mob.

In addition, besides not being official CN members, still during the old days some non-Italians had the same stature in the Outfit as the ones who were made within the national CN organization

^ Thanks for the info. Are you aware of anything going on post-Priolo? From the 80’s onward? Within the Outfit or unaffiliated.
Hard to believe that Sicilians never set a flag in such a major urban center like Chicago during the Pizza-connection era and beyond. Same thing applies to the rest of Italian OC groups.

@ Furio - nice chart. If this is remotely accurate it would make them larger than Philly. Which is highly unlikely.

I have a hard time to believe that all these people (sources?) are part of a cohesive organization. I stick to my guts, whatever is going on today is scattered in semi-independent crews.

I can’t find the time to check the comment sections on Joe Fosco’s blog. Hopefully it would shed some light on their current organizational shape.

It seems that that post Prio, the only thing which connected the Outfit and the Sicilians or zips from the east coast was narcotics, and possibly the car theft business. But the problem was that from the 1970s onward dope dealing was strongly forbidden by the Outfit's top admin (mostly by Accardo, Alex, Cerone and Aiuppa, not by the whole organization) and story goes that even Galante visited Chicago regarding the problem and a deal was made that none of the Sicilians can stay in Chicago or deal with their members, but instead they were allowed to sell their product through other non-Outfit criminals and also to establish themselves in other cities around Illinois. The problem was that some Outfit associates and even members were still getting involved, which additionally brought to the number of the Outfit related murders during the 70s that went over 100. Later the lower level members were mostly involved with the Cubans, Colombians and African-Americans so there was not much space for the Sicilians from the east coast and the so-called pizza connection was over by then. Also, many Outfit associates were using pizza shops for dope dealing since the early 50s.

In addition, Galante was in Chicago since the 50s or before going to prison, and already established a narcotics ring in the same city with the help of different Sicilian or non-Sicilian groups which were under the auspices of the Outfit. Dont forget that Accardo was the first Sicilian boss of the Outfit or the Capone Mob and he came from the Northwest Side and W Grand Av area, an old territory for names such as Lolordo, Provenzano or Loverde but it seems that neither Accardo, nor his buddies, were ever related to that hardcore Sicilian thing, instead they cooperated with everyone who was making cash and was loyal to the Capone Mob. As a matter of fact, Sicilians such as Accardo or Giancana who were born in the states were the main problem for the hardcore Sicilians in taking over the second largest city at the time.

There are a ton of Sicilians in Addison and Bloomingdale and a lot of gambling going on - whether or not they are under the Outfit is probably debatable. Two older articles from the 90s, but these were the Outfit's Zips focused on drug sales and gambling at clubs in Addison and I think its kind of coincidental the last names of these Sicilians are "fratto" and "infelice" :

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-02-18-9402200179-story.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-07-11-9807110155-story.html

Thanks for the info buddy

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/05/16/family-says-mob-wives-chicago-star-is-a-joke/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjChMnbgaLeAhXqIDQIHb4cApgQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2L8huLMIihQFQN3clcxmPq&ampcf=1



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://mobwives.blogspot.com/2012/08/mob-wives-chicago-ottavio-volpe-renees.html%3Fm%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwi2uo3fgqLeAhVlHzQIHeOGCNIQFjALegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0p8VGI9unVZQCgAgClljzk&cshid=1540485266406

Link messing up

Thank you all. Great info.

Apparently, volpe was an associate of the outfit

LuanKuci if the outfit was a traditional LCN family that would be true (to be more large than philly) but as I understood the Chicago Outfit never used the traditional making ceremony so more associates that are money makers had the same respect that in NY would have a made man.For sure the chart must be update but I think that counting official made men and italian associates that are equiparated to made men the Outfit would have 60-70 members.

The reason why some people say the outfit is on the decline is because Johnny d destroyed the outfit, he collapsed crews and stopped bringing in new blood, all he cared about was his pockets and being free. There's still alot of people that want to join, now that thier under new leadership they will start to rebuild

How did he “collapsed” crews?
Are you referring to what jonnynonos mentioned about Elmwood Park being absorbed by Cicero?

If he was allowed to do all of what you claim then he wasn’t the only one who wanted to “kill” it. There must have been some sort of a consensus. So I don’t see things changing since the alleged new administration is made by the same guys from DiFronzo’s inner circle: his brother Peter, Salvatore DeLaurentis, D’Amico...

Or people decide to let these geriatrics enjoy their retirement, and started doing things solo, locally, without keeping them involved...save for the weekly envelope.

What do you mean they let him do that? Who let him do that? I'm quite sure not everyone from Elmwood was crazy about the idea, but the boss is the boss, someone that was in line to be street boss is now out of a promotion...are you sure Pete and marco is not retired? Al capone was the boss but when he got sent to Alcatraz people in his inner circle did things differently

@ Furio - you’re right about the associate-per-made man ratio changes in Chicago. I often forget how different the Outfit is from Atlantic LCN.
But that’s kind of irrelevant if we consider something quite logical: associates can get arrested too.
It’s hard to believe that such a huge organization is so rarely hit by the law. Almost no one ever gets pinched in a serious way. They’ve had no significant indictments in way too many years now. The cases that went down didn’t uncovered nothing remotely top-tier.


@ thebigfella - you used the word “destroyed” which carries quite a negative connotation. Bosses can be taken out, or shelved, if they’re believed to be acting against the well-being of the organization they are supposed to lead. If nobody pushed him out is because most were happy with his ruling and agreed with his strategy...so they also wanted the Outfit to be “destroyed” and won’t really change path now that he’s gone.

You’re right, Peter and D’Amico are most likely retired.

When Johnny d was in good health his inner circle benefitted, when Johnny started getting sick Peter and Marco lost power, that's when Cicero started throwing thier wait around letting the admin. Know that thier not happy the way the direction the outfit was headed. So, you had Cicero vs the old admin. Cicero was the only ones that had enough balls to take on the dinosaur admin. Therefore the old admin.(by this time I imagine Pete and the builder was speaking on behalf of Johnny) decided to pacify cicero and extend an olive branch to Cicero's street boss Jimmy I, and they made him acting boss. To make a long story short Cicero didn't agree with the dinosaur admin

Just for the record, I didn’t say Elmwood Park was absorbed by Cicero. I said, from what I heard, that the North Side crew was absorbed by Grand Ave, The dissolution of Elmwood Park seems to be a separate issue.

The Big Fella’s read seems to jibe with the CW. Meaning, if you’re a person of average intelligence who’s digested all this information, the conclusions he cites are reasonable and in line with my understanding.

People seem to be a bit naive as to indvidual motivations, meaning that I think people aren’t quite thinking about it correctly how someone like DiFronzo viewed the Outfit. He likely didn’t give a flying f#k. Unlike the people on this board, he probably didn’t care if an Outfit existed or not.

He probably looked at his P&L statement and made a call...f— that, I’m out!

Got it.

What’s your take on that 2016 chart?

That was also the knock on ligambi's, people said he wasn't letting guys earn, he only cared about his trusted circle, ligambi's was taped saying "merlino can make who he wants when he gets out"

Given that Ligambi rebuilted the family after the mess that was after the war with stanfa,I think that can do what they want and was enought that Joey would have his share.

My point is, when the leadership changed after Don Merlino got out, the family expanded, I think the same will happen in Chicago

I understood that Ligambi was well liked all across the board, and not just by his own faction. I never read anything hinting that he was greedy and impartial.

As for Chicago. What have they been up to in the last few years under DiFronzo’s regressive regime? Based on what you said, it seems that the rebuilding already started when the Cicero crew openly disagreed with the way things were run and were listened to.

What do you think was the toll of DiFronzo’s leadership?

Is there is anything worth re-building and, most importantly, are there enough people willing to take the effort to make it happen?