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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#968146
03/29/19 11:14 PM
03/29/19 11:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
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"Why didn't we spend time like this before?" Not to get too deep into the weeds, but I've always felt the wording and syntax of this sentence is fascinating. Normally, if you're sorry you haven't had a great time together in the past, you'd say something like, "Why haven't we ever spent time like this?" That wording and tense implies regret for time lost but also hope for the future. But Fredo uses "before" without "ever" and speaks in the past tense, showing that something has happened that will prevent him from having a fraternal relationship with Michael moving forward. For instance, if you go to dinner with a platonic friend and realize you have feelings for each other, you'd say, "What haven't we ever done this?" But if you did it right after her wedding, you'd say, "Why didn't we do this before?" Anyway, that is a great "tell" from Fredo that he knows that he has crossed a line that cannot be uncrossed, and also a clue that Michael didn't seem to pick up on at the time, but may have by the time the New Year's Eve party rolled around. Interesting post Woltz Fredo could have still tried 1. having a fraternal relationship with Michael moving forward 2. to uncross the line he has crossed Fredo could have helped Michael with what he knew for the senate hearing at least even after the first session Surely, Fredo would have known that the senate hearing was coming but chose to keep Michael in the dark Michael didn't seem to pick up on Fredo's great "tell" at the time Did any of us board members? We were all in denial! Three great John Cazale moments in GFII when he and Michael are having their tete-a-tete in the outdoor cafe in Havana:
1. Fredo says, "Sometimes I think I should have settled down, married a girl like Kay, been more like..." He pauses. We wait for him to say, "like you." Instead he says, "like Pop."
“married a girl like Kay†oh! boy!! Sure thing I think we did! wait for him to say, "like youâ€
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Capri]
#968441
04/02/19 07:29 PM
04/02/19 07:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 818
Trojan
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 818
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Godfather II
1. was Michael running the nation's top Mafia Family
2. did Michael blamed Tom for the Corleone's misfortunes
3. was there any divorce/child custody hearing [Kay didn't seem to have any visitation rights even]
4. did Kay get the kids
5. wasn't Corleone family direction not to be like the Roman Empire it once was To my knowledge, 1. Yes 2. No I don't believe Michael blamed Tom for the Corleone's misfortunes 3. No not from what was seen in the movie 4. No not from what was seen in the movie Kay was banished I reckon without the kids 5. Yes from Roman empire to biggest legitimate gambling mogul
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Frankie_Five_Angels]
#970858
05/05/19 11:03 PM
05/05/19 11:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
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My take, for what it is worth!
Desert Inn scene –
Rocco exits the room, joins two men [who were they?] and the three of them are conversing
Neri does not seem to even look in the direction of Rocco and the two men
1. Neri seems to hesitate as if unsure whether Michael meant just Rocco only, surely not both of them!
2. Then takes a couple of steps towards the coffee table, grabs a cigarette and exits
3. Neri does seem to stand just outside the sliding door, looking inside the room, how is it that Tom is still inside whilst Neri is outside!
4. Neri goes into the corner, squats on the floor with his back to the room and is smoking
5. Later we see Neri squatting, facing the room, I bet trying to lip read!
Whilst I too “cannot even imagine! anyone “demonstrating their dissatisfaction†to Michael about anything he said or did†Neri seems to but undoubtedly only because Neri knows Michael cannot see him!
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Trojan]
#971372
05/12/19 12:03 PM
05/12/19 12:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
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There was an interesting anomaly in that scene:
Michael was frantic to get Fredo on the plane with him that would take them out of Cuba. But, in the Vegas scene, after Tom tells Michael that he thinks Fredo's in NY, Michael simply tells Tom to get word to Fredo that he knew Roth misled him, etc. Since Michael was so anxious to get Fredo on the plane, probably less than 48 hours earlier, why didn't he order Tom to bring Fredo to him immediately? He waited until after his Senate appearance to tell Tom that he wanted to talk to Fredo.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Turnbull]
#971445
05/13/19 10:49 AM
05/13/19 10:49 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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There was an interesting anomaly in that scene:
Michael was frantic to get Fredo on the plane with him that would take them out of Cuba. But, in the Vegas scene, after Tom tells Michael that he thinks Fredo's in NY, Michael simply tells Tom to get word to Fredo that he knew Roth misled him, etc. Since Michael was so anxious to get Fredo on the plane, probably less than 48 hours earlier, why didn't he order Tom to bring Fredo to him immediately? He waited until after his Senate appearance to tell Tom that he wanted to talk to Fredo. Michael's head must have been spinning when he yelled at Fredo to get into the car. He was clearly devastated to realize that Fredo was the traitor. He doesn't know whether Roth is alive or dead. He is literally in the middle of a revolution without so much as a bodyguard. He surely hadn't had time to process and analyze Fredo's betrayal. His reaction was probably a combination of thinking it would be wise to keep Fredo close and genuine concern for Fredo's safety. By the time he gets to Nevada, he's had time to assess the situation. He knows Fredo is safe and that he poses no immediate threat to the Family. So he can afford to wait for Fredo to come back to him.
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#971628
05/16/19 10:25 PM
05/16/19 10:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
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After Roth chides Michael with his Moe Greene speech in Havana and goes in for a nap, notice the semi-smirking, condescending look Johnny Ola gives Michael, as if to say, "You think you're hot stuff, kid, but you can't touch the old man."
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: olivant]
#973304
06/18/19 06:27 AM
06/18/19 06:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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When Sonny confronts the FBI agent during the wedding reception, the agent does not display his badge.
I also question the agents recording license plates numbers since they appear to be trespassing. The cars were parked on the compound; that area does not appear to be right of way or property accessible by the public unless invited. oli, I think you're forgetting that this was 1945 and not today. This was not a time when Tom Hagen would have made a legal argument about the FBI overstepping their legal limits.
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: olivant]
#973368
06/19/19 02:48 AM
06/19/19 02:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
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When Sonny confronts the FBI agent during the wedding reception, the agent does not display his badge. As Lou said, the agent did show his ID, and Sonny spat on it. I also question the agents recording license plates numbers since they appear to be trespassing. The cars were parked on the compound; that area does not appear to be right of way or property accessible by the public unless invited. As SC suggested, law enforcement tactics weren't as restricted then as now. I think in 1945, law enforcement was empowered to "inspect" cars that were "suspected of being used in commission of a crime." A stretch, to be sure, in this case. But, the FBI guys knew the Corleones wouldn't file a lawsuit or make any kind of stink--it would embarrass their guests. In II, after the gunfire at the compound, the guards close what appears to be the main entrance gates of the compound. Why were those gates open after dark, especially late at night? It looked like Michael had hundreds, if not thousands, of guests. Maybe all of them hadn't left yet? And anyway, Oli, as you and I have agreed in many instances: directoral license.
Last edited by Turnbull; 06/19/19 02:51 AM.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Frankie_Five_Angels]
#974122
06/29/19 11:14 PM
06/29/19 11:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,082
Australia
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In II, after the gunfire at the compound, the guards close what appears to be the main entrance gates of the compound. Why were those gates open after dark, especially late at night? I am not trying to reignite! one of the most debatable, flogging a dead horse topics!! Perhaps Coppola was trying to tell the audience who killed the assassins! or “directoral license†indeed Did Rocco Kill The Tahoe Shooters? Extract: I believe there was a third [!] assassin who took care of the first two assassins who were probably told to wait by Fredo's bedroom for assistance but were always going to be killed to leave no loose ends
There was a car at the gates trying to drive off or something just after the gun fire and Michael's guards were shouting Stop! Stop! then Halt! Also the sentry was slack leaving the gates open
It seems everyone was pretty much slack after the big party
Rocco failed to secure the compound
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: mustachepete]
#974247
07/02/19 11:56 AM
07/02/19 11:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
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Never noticed that before. It seems Bergmanesque. Pete, when you get the chance, watch that scene again and tell me if it seems purposeful.
Last edited by olivant; 07/02/19 01:48 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Did anyone else notice that .......
[Re: Trojan]
#975729
07/23/19 10:01 PM
07/23/19 10:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
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My two cents worth!
Rocco failed to secure Tahoe Why would Michael trust him bodyguarding Michael, Kay and the children, again
So, why was it Rocco not Neri or Tom presenting papers for Michael to sign, witnessing so personal children are outside we're going
Any significance in Rocco's presence The Tahoe shooting was an inside job, partly (at least) engineered by Fredo. I don't think Michael blamed Rocco for it. He was still close to Michael at the Hotel Washington. Why? Maybe to give Rocco some more screen time to balance Neri's screen time. On the other hand, I believe it is significant that Michael sent Rocco, not Neri, on that one-way mission to kill Roth.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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