Didn't help that the coat he was wearing looked too big and he was doing an awkward move with his hand holding the sleeve up. He looked feeble. They should have definitely filmed that better, by either digitally putting DeNiro's younger face on a young actor's body, or done it in a way where they showed just the foot of a different actor stomping on the hand or something. Not a deal breaker either way but a weird thing to have shot and thought, "Yeah, that looks good. That's a wrap!"

Cringe worthy in the extreme to be sure.

The more I watch this the more I realize that this was the movie Scorsese wanted to make when he did Casino.

In Casino he gives Ace Rothstein a somewhat positive ending. Mean Streets, Goodfellas, and Casino didn't really go into the aftermath of the lead characters. They end just as the party's over. They don't go into the loneliness and despair. Raging Bull sort of does but it's also not necessarily a mob movie. And as far as we can see, "Tommy Como" or any of his associates go on to business as usual, perhaps die peaceful deaths off screen.

The Irishman was the first gangster film Scorsese really got to make where he had an hour to deep dive into the sad decay of a former wiseguy, where all their friends are dead and their families won't have anything to do with them because of their past.

I wonder if Scorsese didn't bother using a stunt double in these scenes where DeNiro physically looks old for this very reason. Even though he's portraying a young man in some of these scenes, his old posture foreshadows his meek status in life at the end of the film.

I think the de-aging technology worked well in many scenes, for example the scenes with Sheeran and Skinny Razor. Skinny looked older than Sheeran, meanwhile Bobby Cannavale is nearly 30 years younger than DeNiro. A lot of this is just DeNiro's good acting and the wardrobe, Skinny wearing suits while Sheeran had a more working class attire early in the film.

The Irishman is an end of life film. You can see the progression from his earlier films where, slowly but surely, the life doesn't look so attractive anymore. No comeuppance for Michael or Giovanni in Mean Streets or even Salvi or Tommy in Raging Bull. Then again, maybe Scorsese didn't feel they needed it because they weren't written as being totally ruthless or crazy. Then we get to Pesci's characters in Goodfellas and Casino. Both pyscho monsters who are cut down in their prime as a result of their actions. Neither death was sad, although both were brutal. But at almost 80 years old, I think Scorsese was finally ready to approach a life full lived for these guys, and it wasn't pretty. I honestly felt nothing for Sheeran in the film (much like his daughter). But I DID feel for the Bufalino character, although he was every bit the murderer that Sheeran was. Watching him in prison got me to sympathize with him. But at the end of the day, if Bufalino had ordered the death of a loved one, I'd more than likely say fuck him, let him rot like Manson. The film was a great character study on aging with guilt and regret.

Another nice detail I picked up after the fourth viewing:

Scorsese is fanatical about using authentic-looking people in his backgrounds. He did it in all the gangster movies. Here you see them--exactly as you'd expect them to look--in, for example, the second Sheeran christening, the Bufalino wedding, in the house where Hoffa was killed, in the restaurant where Bruno confronts Sheeran about bombing the laundry, in the bar where he's about to meet Skinny...

That paralleled Michael's end days in III. I have no sympathy for any of them., They should die horribly and alone shunned by all except the undertaker.

I give kudos to Scorsese for Peggy's story arch. Even as a child she was wary of not only Bufalino, but her father also. When she danced with Hoffa while looking over his shoulder at Provanzano, Bufalino, and Salerno, one flashed back to her looking at her dad as she stood in the doorway while the TV recounted Gallo's murder and when she asked her Dad why he hadn't yet called Jo Hoffa. I love that kind of continuity which was so manifest in the Trilogy.

Yes TB, the authentic-looking people in all those scenes is part of the continuity I refer to.

By the way, any thoughts about why Scorsese used such slow, slow motion especially in the wedding scene?

In the special feature on Netflix where they're all at a restaurant talking about their careers, Pesci says he was willing to play Tony Pro, but that Scorsese insisted on him playing a boss this time.

I noticed Scorsese likes to use early rock and roll ballads as opposed to the classical "Rat Pack" pop most mobsters were probably listening to in the 1950s. The music Scorsese uses in this period is typically what teenagers listened to. Makes sense considering he was one at this time. This could have something to do with frequent collaborator Robbie Robertson (of The Band), too, who was music producer in this and many of Scorsese's other films.

Oli, I think at least part of the reason was to emphasize the hypocrisy of Mob life.Sheeran had just cold-bloodely murdered his benefactor on the orders of a Mob boss, and now he, that boss, and a bunch of other murderous Mob guys (that he's giving us a long look at, to my point earlier) are in church, looking on warmly and benevolently, as the Mob lawyer's daughter receives the sacrament of marriage.

Scorsese's great about that. But, this time, the R&R songs did not fit the chronology of the scenes they were used in, whereas in "Mean Streets," "Goodfellas" and "Casino," the songs were exactly those that were popular at the time depicted in the scenes.

Since I am of a certain age, I thought the most brilliant match of song-to-scene was in "Mean Streets," when Charlie is looking in a mirror lovingly at himself trying on the mongrammed shirt his mother bought him. The background song is "I Love You So" by the Chantels--perfecto! I saw the Chantels several times at the Alan Freed R&R shows at the Brooklyn Paramount in the Fifties. Arlene Smith, the lead singer, was about 14 or 15, but she was, uh, completely "filled out" and wore a tight white dress. All the horny teenaged boys (like me) were howling away at her. Her uncle, a churchy-looking type, played piano behind the group--and stared daggers at us. If looks could kill...

Scorsese's great about that. But, this time, the R&R songs did not fit the chronology of the scenes they were used in, whereas in "Mean Streets," "Goodfellas" and "Casino," the songs were exactly those that were popular at the time depicted in the scenes.


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TB, I agree to an extent. I don't know his reason for Johnnie Ray's Cry when Dorfman's car was being shot up (I do like that song). Of course, Maybe he wasn't trying to follow a chronology, but simply using some songs to fit the scene.

But one thing's for sure: when the film opened with In the Still of the Night, I was hooked.

I think Scorsese used those songs because it just takes him back to that time. He seems to avoid the classical pop, the Sinatra, Dean Martin, etc. He'll throw the occasional rat pack number in there but overall all of his mob movies tend to be scored with early rock and roll, soul ballads.

Yes, Turnbull, the scene in Mean Streets is great. Also "Florence" when they're driving to the pool hall. The biscuit song. "Pledging My Love" when Charlie is dancing with that girl after that vet loses it.

WOW deepfake looks great.

Yes, indeed, Oak, great picks! "Florence" by the Paragons going to the pool hall is my second-favorite among many great pairings in "Mean Streets." Notice how the guys are completely disoriented when they leave their neighborhood--a realistic touch for that era.
The "biscuit" song is "Rubber Biscuit" by the Chips--another New York Doo-Wop. "Pledging My Love" by Johnny Ace, is another great, and poignant, match--he died from an accidental, self-inflicted gunshot wound not long after that all-time make-out special.

It's the aerial shot of Tony's beautiful blue Imperial LeBaron sliding through the back streets. Back when Little Italy was very much Little Italy.

Never knew about Johnny Ace's death. And man, this makes the tune all the more haunting. From wikipedia:

I saw the movie last night. I thought it was great. Only one minor thing that bothered me, DeNiro talks more like a New York guy than a Philly guy like Sheeran must have talked. It's such a small thing though, that it didn't change the movie for me. I loved the old trucks and cars, too. They seemed correct for the time.

That's EXACTLY how I felt about Sebastian Maniscalco as Gallo. He did a good enough job but I could hear his Chicago patois loud and clear. But like you say, that's a tiny nitpick.

Be My Baby and Jumpin Jack Flash are the most obvious choices. But in my opinion they're also the best. Each fit their respective scenes perfectly.

They all had their Volpe's entry song.

Charlie: Tell Me - Stones

Johnny Boy: Jumping Jack Flash - Stones

Mario: Malafemmina - Jimmy Roselli

Kid with gun: Marruzella - Renato Carosone

Michael: Scapricciatiello - Renato Carosone

I just read an interesting interview that Tarantino had with Scorsese. Apparently the studio wanted Jon Voight as Charlie. At one point there was even talk of Keitel stepping aside to play Johnny Boy. Voight ended up turning them down so it was much ado about nothing. BUT both David Proval and Richard Romanus were acting students of Voight's. Scorsese ended up casting them while observing Voight's classes.

Yeah, I agree. I never met Joey Gallo, so I don't really know. But Maniscalco's acting kind of fits what I think Joey must have been like. More like the attitude he portrays than anything else.

People might think of Jon Voight now and laugh but thinking of how he was in the 70's, he could have played Charlie well. A young, brash man who had Charlie's charisma, like Keitel. The advantage I think Keitel had however was growing up in Brooklyn, as opposed to Voight having grown up in White Planes. Keitel just got it in a way that I don't think Voight would have.

You're close, Oak. But Voight grew up in Yonkers. And I agree. Voight is the most underrated actor of his generation.

As with the Trilogy, there are questions (at least I have some) about The Irishman some of which concern the storyline and others concern production choices.

For one, in the opening scene:

why does the camera moving down the hall briefly angle to the right?
why don't Frank's lips move for a few seconds once he begins his narration?
to whom is Frank speaking? Are we to imagine that he is being interviewed although noone sits across from him?

I think he might have been talking to the priest we see at the end, though not everything he was saying at the beginning fits that view.

I think of DeNiro's Johnny Boy as his second best performance, after LaMotta in"Raging Bull." Keitel was wonderful, too. "Mean Streets" has that almost-magical Scorsese talent for making scripted scenes look like they're ad-libbed. The scene in the back of Tony's bar when Charlie is haranguing Johnny Boy about paying his debts, and they're talking about the girls "Is she the one on my left, or your left" will never be surpassed.

Still my favorite after all these years. I was 14 when Mean Streets came out and honestly didn't see it in theatres (I have seen it since on multiple occasions when it runs in a revival type movie house). I guess I saw it for the first time around 1980. The 8th Street Street Playhouse had it on a double bill with Raging Bull. My aunt lived across the street. And what I loved is that, in the scene where the gay guys are getting rousted in the car, you not only see the sign for West 8th Street, you also see the old 69 cent store that was literally spitting distance from my aunt and uncle's apartment!

Please look for it upon your next viewing for me, TB. My little brother, who's 56 now lol, and I spent countless Sundays running down to that store with pockets fulls of change. So there are very personal reasons involved for me, but even without that nice personal touch, Mean Streets will ALWAYS be my favorite Scorsese film. Because it's the most raw and endearing NYC film I've ever seen next to The Sweet Smell of Success.

And, TB. When you post these little tidbits, it makes me happy that I've returned here. So if you see posting more than a casual observation in the OC threads, please kick my ass off. Because I don't wanna take another four years off😂😂.

I think DeNiro and Keitel did a little tribute to their Mean Street banter in Irishman. When Bruno asks Sheeran if he knows who else owns a piece of the laundry service and Sheeran says he doesn't know, then Bruno says he does. Sheeran says something like "oh, you know who?" and Bruno replies, "No, I do, as in I own the place". lol. That was right out of Mean Streets. Actually reminded of the "we're both staring the same direction" line.

Yup, I spotted the 69 Cent Store tonight while watching "Mean Streets" for about the 500th time. Florsheim Shoes, too. And, the gun store, which I think was on Chambers Street. Didn't see Elpine or Benedict, PB
Eighth Street Playhouse was one of a string of "Art Movie Houses" that showed foreign films in the Fifties and Sixties. Owned by Rugoff Theaters. My aunt worked for them. As a result, no one in our family every paid for a movie ticket. Made a big impression on my bride-to-be--she thought I was "sophisticated" because I had a taste for "art movies." My taste actually was for "free movies."

You're right, Oak. Very sharp observation!

For those of you who are interested, Youtube provides several videos that analyze parts of the film. I watched one them this afternoon and it did point out some things about the film that escaped me. They're interesting. I especially encourage those who expected a shoot 'em up gangster film to view a couple of these Youtube videos. They help explain Scorsese's approach and motivation.

By the way, I thought that exchange between Bruno and Frank to be quite amusing. I also noted Bufalino's expression during the exchange; he seemed to be amused also.