like i mean how much do the feds and other mob experts know about how much made guys does a family have ?
like in wiki they say the genovese family have around 220
who knows ?! maybe they 280 ?

i hope you guys understand my question

More like 120-150 made guys. Just a guess. I think I remember it came out they had 12 crews or 15 crews......shit I can't remember. But that's what I'm going off.

wow !!! that low !?!?

Genovese crews are different as each one has different amount of members. Small crews for pasteurized crew members, specialists, and then you have a few large crews that have 15 to 20 soldiers in it. The Genovese crime family actually only has 14 crews right now and 215 members. There is a debate if there is a 15th crew that is small, or if it is actually part of another crew.

215 members? What's your source may I ask?

thank you giacomo

Neo, if we are to believe that the Genovese crime family did indeed put a freeze on membership except for 2 new members induction around Christmas time each since 2017 and have not lifted that freeze since, then add the known members that died since then and since 2015. Then my count is 215. Varies law enforcement officials sources have different numbers, but they place the the family membership between 200 and 225. There is the strong possibility that there are more members out there but the Genovese crime family can not exceed 250 members as that is their set cap from what informants and mobsters that have flipped have said about that family. I hope that clears it up.

And what if the smaller families like colombos say f#%k the set cap and induct 100 more members?
The commission can hardly have the same power and influence over families as they used to.

The Cap was set either at the 1971 or 1976 commission meeting of the five families. They closed the books from 1958 till 1975 for too many members being made and Scalise selling membership into the Gambino crime family. I'll point out that Joe Colombo and Joe Bonanno were making guys on the sneak, Bonanno made 4 or 5 guys, Colombo about a dozen, and after Colombo was shot, the family followed with what Colombo was doing and made about a half of dozen guys on the sneak before the books were reopened.This was so the families would not feel threatened and start making more members, it is a way for the families to have a stable and peaceful co existence. During the 1960s you had the Profaci war, and the Bonanno war. We know that the Bonanno and Colombo families were submitting fake members that died so they could make new members in their families when they capped out to grow. The Gambinos and Genovese seemed to not mind these as it increased those families sizes by 20 members which were not a threat to those two big familes and only after the fact, but the new members they felt belonged to their society. It was when another family found out or knew that it was a fake member during the vetting phase that the problems would start. Meaning the family caught could not make any new members for the rest of the year and pay a huge penalty, money always money with these guys.

I didn't know the Genoveses closed the books in 2017, any information on why they did that?

That set cap of 250 members is interesting. Something I didn't know.

Any potential inductees have got to get vetted by the other four families.

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/p/current-leadership-of-five-families.html

Gambino Crime Family

Official Boss: Peter "One Eyed Pete/Petey Boy/One Eye/Cyclops" Gotti (Jailed)
Acting Boss: Domenico "Italian Dom/Greaseball/Dom and Cheese/Dom from 18th Avenue" Cefalu
Up-Front Panel: Anthony Gurino (Dead), Joseph "Sonny" Juliano
Underboss: Lorenzo Mannino
Consigliere: Michael “Mickey Boy” Paradiso
New Jersey Faction Boss: Nicholas "Nicky Mita" Mitarotonda
Estimated Membership: About 180 Made Members

Genovese Crime Family

Official Boss: Liborio S. "Barney" Bellomo
Underboss: Ernest "Ernie" Muscarella
Consigliere: Unknown
New Jersey Faction Boss: Unknown
Estimated Membership: About 200 Made Members

Bonanno Crime Family

Official Boss: Michael "Mickey Nose/The Nose" Mancuso
Acting Boss: John “Johnny P/Johnny Skyway” Palazzolo
Panel: Unknown
Underboss: Unknown
Consigliere: Unknown
New Jersey Faction Boss: Joseph "Sammy/Sammo" Sammartino Sr.
Estimated membership: About 110 Made Members

Lucchese Crime Family

Official Boss: Vittorio "Vic/Little Vic/Vic the Terminator" Amuso (Life Imprisonment)
Acting Boss: Michael "Big Mike" DeSantis
Underboss: Steven "Stevie Wonder/Wonderboy/Herbie" Crea (Life Imprisonment)
Acting Underboss: Patrick "Patty Red" Dellorusso
Consigliere: Andrew DeSimone
New Jersey Faction Boss: Ralph Vito Perna
Estimated Membership: About 100 Made Members

Colombo Crime Family

Official Boss: Carmine “Junior/The Snake/Immortal” Persico (Dead)
Acting Boss: Alphonse "Little Allie Boy/Allie Boy/The Kid" Persico (Life Imprisonment)
Street Boss: Andrew "Andy Mush" Russo
Underboss: Benjamin "The Little Guy/The Claw/Benji" Castellazzo
Acting Underboss: Dominick "Donny Shacks" Montemarano
Consigliere: Unknown
Acting Consigliere: Thomas "Tom Mix/Mr. T" Farese
Estimated Membership: About 90 Made Members

great thread so far

Very fascinating! You seem very knowledgable
What do you think would happen if the colombos inducted upto 200 members? Or bonnano for that sake, seems like something M. Mancuso could do just to rival/spite the Genoveses/Gambinos

LuxuryDog, when Casso was running the Lucchese crime family for Amuso, he made the suggestion that the Colombo family merged with his own family as a way to stop the 3rd Colombo war, with two unidentified Colombo crews going to the Genovese. Even John Gotti was thinking of having the Bonannos merge with his family, until Joe Massino was named boss of the Bonanno, which gave him an ally and fought for the Bonannos to have a seat on the Commission to give him a secured vote. 2000, the Colombo crime family was still in disarray to where the other four families had a major discussion to disband that family. Joe Massino was against doing so and was able to get the imprisoned Amuso on his side through the Lucchese crime family representative, the Genovese crime family representative came to vote with Amuso and Massino on this, it was Peter Gotti who was pushing for the Colombo crime family to be disbanded. I wish Joe Massino could confirm or deny a rumor that a Genovese capo said they could disband the Colombo family after they kill some of the members in that family.

What is know and estimated of the families membership strength today would put the rankings like this.
1) Genovese
2) Gambino
3) Bonanno and Lucchese
4) Colombo

What informant mentioned the 250 cap? It couldn't have been in 71 or 76 cause they had way more than 250 members back then. Even in the early 80's, I've seen figures putting the Genovese at 600 members.

But yes, everything I've seen for modern times puts them around 200-225.

600 !!!!???!!!?? woww !!!

giacomo i hope you answer that

There are also many non-made members in a crew so you also have to take those guys in account.

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/13/nyregion/gambino-crime-family-reported-dominant-now.html
(1981)

"Most law enforcement officials believe that Philip Lombardo is now the head of the Genovese family, which has about 600 members..."

600 might be a bit inflated, but it may have been an estimate of the family during its peak from the 50s-80s. I've seen lots of other estimates putting the Genovese at 300 during the 80s and even up to the early 2000s. It's also widely quoted that the Gambinos had 400 or so made members during Gottis era, and potentially even more during its peak.

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/03/nyregion/as-a-caesar-goes-so-goes-his-family.html
(1992)

"The strength of the Gambino family rests with about 400 "made" or inducted members and more than 1,000 associates or people who actively assist the family.

The Genovese family's rackets include interests in the construction and garbage removal industries in New York and New Jersey. It has about 300 members and 1,000 associates."

wow !!! thank you very much !!!

Mancuso would not make so many, he might add ten, but he will not jeopardize his Lucchese and Genovese backers. Keep in mind that the Sicilians might be at each others throats from time fo time, but the zips in both the Bonanno and Gambino crime families have a actually grown strong since both Gotti and Massino were removed from the scene. Mancuso just shelved Joe C, Vito and Joseph Grimaldi, and Porky, all guys the zips in the family highly respect due to how they did their defense but it really was so he had no threat to his position. He made JP his underboss for all things, no way he is going to buck those families after what he did.
The Colombos are still written off as a joke. They still have some heavy hitters. Bring that hight in the family membership, would be seeing guys disappearing or those bodies being found later on.

giacomo
the bonanno's got some action in canada right ?
do they have made guys over there ?

The Colombos are fucking pathetic, they need to start shelving some guys, then dissolve the administration and split the crews up between the other families.

Yes I know that story, but what do you personally think would happen IF the colombos made 400 members and then just told the other families to bite it
Would there be repurcussion? (Sorry if spelled wrong) and if The Commission killed off the admin because of it, would the 300 newly made guys still count as made men?

These are criminals after all, it wouldnt surprise me if the bananas had a hand in starting the canada war by being the ones who approached the other italian clans up there (Ndrangheta and Camorra) to take out the rizzutos who originally were bonannos but broke off
And then it escalated beyond what they could imagine and now they more or less got nothing up there

I might be totally wrong but who REALLY knows

yeah that's might be possible...

Recent Lucchese family turncoat John Pennisi testified that they had 7 crews and each crew had about seven or eight members.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/30/luche...bloodless-coup-orchestrated-from-prison/
https://www.silive.com/news/2019/06...ld-down-to-secret-initiation-ritual.html

How much acurate are the numbers count? Learn to speak English you dummy, you make Skinny Joey sound like Socrates.