3 registered members (Ciment, joepuzzles234, 1 invisible),
1,077
guests, and 33
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums21
Topics43,337
Posts1,085,999
Members10,381
|
Most Online1,245 1 hour ago
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: fergie]
#990258
04/28/20 04:00 PM
04/28/20 04:00 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
Zavattoni
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
|
@Pmac
Gerry Catena was retired but I I think I read a topic about him sticking up for Casella. Guess that was enough for everyone to back off him.
Out of the Bruno hit and Testa hit
Stanfa; Ciancagalini; Casella and Tony Casella (He was marked for death but no one whacked him) are the only four that got a pass between the two hits. Wasn't Sindone also close to getting a pass because he wasn't immediately whacked. Something happened and Philly decided to whack Sindone
Last edited by Zavattoni; 04/28/20 04:10 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: fergie]
#990259
04/28/20 04:16 PM
04/28/20 04:16 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
|
Gerry Catena got Casella a pass. Casella did a piece of work for him through Marco Reginelli. at least that's the story, it also probably had to do with his time in the can. Considering that the difference in the Caponigro situation, it wasn't a scheme by the Genoveses, so they end up with with Scarfo as Boss. Win-win for them.
Stanfa on the other hand was protected by the Gambino's in that situation but I still believe he was involved
Last edited by Dob_Peppino; 04/28/20 04:21 PM.
"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: Zavattoni]
#990261
04/28/20 04:20 PM
04/28/20 04:20 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,236
Serpiente
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,236
|
Quoting Leonetti “Guys like Chickie didn’t get it he thought he could just prop himself up using is wealth to become the boss he didn’t understand that NY had to approve the bossâ€. Leonetti has mentioned many times that despite being a millionaire Chickie was obsessed really with power. I’m sure it didn’t help Leonetti’s perception of Chickie that he killed Phil Testa who he knew since he was a kid Casella knew the rules. He was a old man the time Testa got whacked and had been in the life a very long time. How he got saved is shocking. He never expected to get busted by Nick ... they really thought anyone in the family was falling for the roofrers Union....no way.
Cackling like a banty Rooster.
I love this," "I just love this."
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: Zavattoni]
#990264
04/28/20 04:36 PM
04/28/20 04:36 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
|
How the commission accepted him to just go to Florida and retire is still beyond comprehensive.
You "Don't kill a sitting boss". Casella knew better. I think Narducci is the one that was encouraging him to take out Testa. Casella was a old man; He was in his 70's.
A little off topic; Is there more information about Frank Monte; He was Scarfo's Consigliere. who says you can't whack out a sitting boss? Its always about money and benefits, the rules went out the door when Mangano got whack and they allowed Anastasia to live. The Rules went out when Bonanno got pushed out and that old world-menality went with him. Testa out of the way, meant that Scarfo who was connected to the Genovese through Bobby Manna, was a benefit to them. Casella would've gotten clipped on general principle(just for show) but Catena spoke for him. In my opinion Testa didn't have any "friends" in NY, so they unintentionally benefited from the situation. It was a so-what/business as usual kinda thing.... now if you wanna be alittle more "conservative" about it, it was Foul that they blow the man up in his house. Casella shouldn't have got a pass for that imo
"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: chin_gigante]
#990265
04/28/20 05:00 PM
04/28/20 05:00 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 305
mchang93
Capo
|
Capo
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 305
|
Finally, in the itw, he said Phil Testa made Pete Casella Underboss and not Scarfo because Casella was Sicilian like Testa (Scarfo being Calabrian). I don't think that was the reason. My guess is that Testa knew Scarfo had a lot of power and was close to NY so makin him the Nr.2 would have threatened his leadership. We all know what happen then.
I disagree for a couple of reasons. I think if Testa seriously considered Scarfo a threat rather than an ally we would know about it already through Leonetti (either in his book, interviews or in the information he provided to reports from the NJ SCI). We haven't seen any information to lead us to believe that Testa and Scarfo's relationship was strained at this point and in fact, the evidence we do have points to the contrary. I.e., Scarfo pushing for Testa to become boss in the mid-late 1970s; Testa wanting Scarfo to replace Joe Rugnetta as consigliere; Scarfo siding with Testa in his dispute with Bruno; Scarfo promoting Testa to take over following Bruno's murder; their joint involvement in killing threats to their new leadership (John Simone, Frank Sindone). Regarding the Sicilian and Calabrian factions, Leonetti's claim is supported. From 1959 to 1981 you have an uninterrupted pattern when it comes to the top administration positions. Angelo Bruno and Phil Testa were Sicilians and they chose fellow Sicilians as their underbosses (Ignazio Denaro and Testa for Bruno; Casella for Testa). The consigliere on the other hand was always Calabrian (Rugnetta, Caponigro, Scarfo). In the case of the Philadelphia family, the position of consigliere in the 1960s and 1970s was viewed as not simply the number three man in the hierarchy but as the head of the Calabrian faction. When Joe Rugnetta died in 1977, the only serious* contenders to replace him were all Calabrians (Testa wanted Scarfo, others speculated that Nicholas Piccolo would get it and, finally, the Calabrian faction chose Caponigro for the position). One could make the argument that, while the consigliere is often generalised as the number three role in the family, the consigliere can hold more influence than the underboss at any time (e.g., Philip Rastelli considered Stefano Cannone, his consigliere, as his number two). The general consensus appears to be that Scarfo, as consigliere, carried more weight in the family than Casella did as underboss. Casella also didn't come out of nowhere. His appointment was a surprise and, ultimately, a very bad decision but it wasn't without reason. Casella was a long-time member who had done considerable prison time for the family and he had also set up a couple of meetings for Testa in New York after Bruno was killed. *while not seriously considered for the role, the Sicilian Antonio Pollina made it known he wanted to be consigliere after Rugnetta and was politely turned down by Bruno Yep. The Sicilian, Calabrian thing goes way back with Philly. If you research history going way back thier was always a fued and once peace was made it played more of a part in hierarchy then people think. The consig. being head of Calabrese as apposed to being number 3 was pretty well known back in the day.
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: fergie]
#990267
04/28/20 05:35 PM
04/28/20 05:35 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
Zavattoni
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
|
@Dob-Peppino
I know we're off topic but the Mangano murder is even stranger. Joe Profaci; and Joe Bonanno were close with Mangano. I mean those 3 were really really close. They all three went fishing together; and had picnics. For them to let Anastasia become boss without repercussions is strange. You're right; Killing Mangano put in everyone mind that you can kill a sitting boss without a price. I agree with you about Casella having Testa blown up in his own house; Cruel.... Casella must of definitely did a good deed for Catena back in their younger days..... He would have been. Dead.
@JCrusher
Yea; Narducci was behind the plot for sure. A 70 year old man wouldn't randomly just try to whack his boss and Casella was already in a administration position. All Frank Narducci for sure....Thanks for the Frank Monte info; Was he a captain at anytime?
Last edited by Zavattoni; 04/28/20 05:44 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: MightyDR]
#990271
04/28/20 06:59 PM
04/28/20 06:59 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
Zavattoni
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
|
Where does it come from that it was Catena who helped out Casella? Not sure but I looked at some old topics about Pete Casella. There's references that Catena saved him and let him retire to Florida. Tbh; Casella should have never been Underboss... He was a old time drug dealer. I don't know what Testa was thinking. Think Testa was into heroin dealing himself and wanted someone close to him that knew drugs. Casella should have been whacked more so then anyone else; He was in a administration position and he wasn't even greatful for that. Both Bruno and Testa were taking out due to drugs. Caponigro was a drug dealer too; He couldn't stand the Cherry Hill Gambino's operating in Philly and close by.
Last edited by Zavattoni; 04/28/20 07:04 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: fergie]
#990272
04/28/20 07:04 PM
04/28/20 07:04 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 59
Barracuda
Button
|
Button
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 59
|
I think he got mixed up on a few things (I can understand it's been 30 years). One thing he said they were trying to put the blame on John McCullough and the roofers union but wasn't McCullough already dead at that point? Could he have mean't John Berkery who claims in his own book there was suspicion of him since he was so close to McCullough and was rumored to have used a bomb in a hit back in the 60s. They're were a few other things but nothing major. Pretty cool interview, wish we could've saw what he looks like now though I'm curious lol
Last edited by Barracuda; 04/28/20 07:05 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: Zavattoni]
#990287
04/28/20 09:13 PM
04/28/20 09:13 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
|
@Dob-Peppino
I know we're off topic but the Mangano murder is even stranger. Joe Profaci; and Joe Bonanno were close with Mangano. I mean those 3 were really really close. They all three went fishing together; and had picnics. For them to let Anastasia become boss without repercussions is strange. You're right; Killing Mangano put in everyone mind that you can kill a sitting boss without a price. I agree with you about Casella having Testa blown up in his own house; Cruel.... Casella must of definitely did a good deed for Catena back in their younger days..... He would have been. Dead.
@JCrusher
Yea; Narducci was behind the plot for sure. A 70 year old man wouldn't randomly just try to whack his boss and Casella was already in a administration position. All Frank Narducci for sure....Thanks for the Frank Monte info; Was he a captain at anytime?
@Zavattoni i think in the case of Mangano, Profaci and Bonanno may have known Anastasia was gonna get hit in 57' (not apart of the plot but saw the writing on the wall and did nothing to stop it). Silence is a good as Co-signing a hit IMO. That is often why i thought Anastasia was murdered so Disrespectful (laid out like a dog similar to Castellano). One thing i found interesting about Philly is that Bruno seemed to keep his guys in the dark. I just don't understand why guys (Testa, Caponigro, Johnny Keys, Frank Barricuda etc) had such a limited knowledge of "big mob" politics. I mean its not like these guys just woke up and joined the mafia  (Testa)How are you an underboss with no connects to NY? (Caponigro) How could you be so close with NY guys that you actually got misidentified on Valachi charts, and not know you need more then Frank Tieri to approve the Bruno hit?
Last edited by Dob_Peppino; 04/28/20 09:15 PM.
"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: fergie]
#990290
04/28/20 09:26 PM
04/28/20 09:26 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
Zavattoni
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
|
@Dob_Peppino
Anastasia def died like a dog. To be in a barberchair and shot numerous times.... Brutal... He had it coming to him though.
I agree with what your saying; Caponigro; Sindone; Scimone; Narducci; Casella. They knew mob politics; but decided to go against it. Testa not having NY connections was interesting. He was afraid of being whacked after the Bruno murder and didn't want to go to NY for any meetings.
Bruno should have retired when Carlo died. I hear Castellano didn't care to much for Bruno and did nothing. Ironically; There just alike... Out of touch with everything; and both murdered by their own men. They were greedy; The more I'm hearing; Bruno was manipulative. At one point in the interview; Leonetti stated that Bruno loved getting money from drugs. Castellano and Bruno were getting money from the Cherry Hill Gambino:s and not letting others deal. Hypocrisy..
Last edited by Zavattoni; 04/28/20 09:27 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: fergie]
#990297
04/28/20 10:16 PM
04/28/20 10:16 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
Dob_Peppino
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 615
|
@Zavattoni Total agreement. It is ironic how similar and damn funny Castellano didn't respect Bruno (little curious why). What's also interesting is that The Genovese's, for all intents and purposes, made one hell of an example of Tony Bananas and the others. Pure stupidity on Casella and Narducci to think they would get away with it. Narducci was already a millionaire, really no reason to be eager for boss of Philly position, if you pulling that kinda scratch on your own.
Scarfo wanted the legacy he got but he doesn't get credit for being a strong boss to a certain extent. Not a great boss but he I don't know if he wanted to be a Carlo Gambino as much as a Al Capone type
"Joe Bananas went after Carlo Gambino, the war went on for seven years..... When guys go to the mattresses, they're not out earning" -Tony Soprano
|
|
|
Re: Phil Leonetti valutainment interview
[Re: fergie]
#990300
04/28/20 10:31 PM
04/28/20 10:31 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
Zavattoni
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 907
|
@Dob_Peppino
They definitely did make a example out Caponigro. Tieri screwed him over big time.... Poor guy got $20 doller bills stuck in his a** and was tortured.
Response to Castellano and Bruno relationship; Castellano could care less about Bruno. Castellano was greedy. He prolly had alot to gain by Bruno being dead. The Gambino's were walking all over Bruno and selling coke and heroin in South Jersey. The bars and pizza places. I'm pretty sure Castellano didnt care;, He did lose a vote by proxy on commission decisions though. Someone could prolly elaborate about that.
Bruno gets alot of leeway with being a good boss but was he really???? He seems greedy and cheap like Paul. Guys from different factions was plotting against him
Last edited by Zavattoni; 04/28/20 10:38 PM.
|
|
|
|