I'm seeing two points of view here that have validity and I think both sides would be wise to understand where the other comes from.

I think all Moe is trying to say is not to be cast under any false illusions of Hollywood dramatization of Mafia life. Fundamentally, these are not good people. What makes the Mafia fascinating to many including myself is that you have a criminal group of people who are committed to operating outside of the law. They devote their lives to flouting authority, yet they ascribe to a rigid paramilitary structure within their own ranks. It makes for an interesting dichotomy, and over the years there have been examples of both the "Men of Honor" to borrow Joe Bonanno's term for it, but let us not forget that there have been plenty of other examples of guys devoid of any redeeming moral character whatsoever. Most may well be somewhere between those two on the spectrum.

Further to Moe's point, and as I mentioned in the thread lamenting the passing of Frank Cullotta - let's not forget these are bad guys. If you were the one being shaken down for a third of your store's revenue in pizzo, you wouldn't be happily handing over your hard earned profits because of how cool these mob guys are. If your son or daughter were lost to heroin imported and distributed by Matthew Madonna you wouldn't be defending these guys. They have victimized tens of thousands of people in the past century.

There's plenty of middle ground. There are the guys who "victimized" and even brutalized people that deserved it, or at least who knew the risks and rolled the dice (perhaps literally). But there are the innocent as well; honest people who did their best and found themselves extorted or otherwise taken advantage of.

I'm like you, NYMafia - I love the history of the Mob and I'm fascinated by the many dichotomies it presents. It speaks to so many things - brotherhood, parallel government, honour, greed, and the list goes on. That's what makes it interesting and why five decades after the Godfather we still eat up Mafia themed movies and TV shows, even as the real-life power of the Mafia has significantly diminished.

I also love WWII history and have read just about anything I could get my hands on about Hitler -- that does not make me a Nazi. Likewise, I love mob history (and current events) but that doesn't make me a mob sympathizer. Though I admit, without reservation, that to does fascinate me.

I think maybe what people are taking offence to in Moe's stand is that he might say some of this with a certain moral high-handedness when the reality is he's just like the rest of us - each fascinated in our own way by the legend, fact and fiction of the Mafia. But I must agree with his underlying point here: most of these guys are not deserving of hero-worship. Save that for the veterans and first responders and the people who show true courage every day.