On his recent video Mike slips up and admits
next Saturday is his 40 year anniversary from when he was made. As we all know Mike has always claimed he was made Halloween 1975. We've had discussions on multiple mob forums for years about the books and when they opened. Here's the video. This would put his ceremony in 1980, not 1975.

https://youtu.be/WuPG9JAqog8

Franzese induction's date never made sense to me. 1980 seems more logical.

I don't understand why he would lie about that ?

I agree; 1980 seems more logical; but I have two questions.

In 1980; Carmine Persico was on the streets as boss of the Colombo family; He was out on parole;

My question is; Franzese says that Tom DiBella was introduced as boss in his induction ceremony; Why would Tom DiBella be introduced as ''Boss'' when Carmine Persico was out on the streets during this time; Wouldn't have Persico overseen that ''1980 ceremony?''

My other question; What year was Andrew Russo made a captain?? Franzese was under him for sometime.

Franzese was made in 1978. DiBella was still boss, the underboss position was vacant. Salvatore Miciotta, who was also part of this ceremony, said it took place the Halloween after the March 1978 murder of Americus Scotese.

I also don't think Franzese is 'lying' about it, I think he just misremembered. Plenty of guys end up with inaccurate dates for when they got down. It's not like they keep records of it. Not unheard of for people to forget important dates in their lives, like anniversaries, birthdays of relatives, etc. Anthony Casso and Vincent Cafaro also got the dates of their inductions wrong, saying they got down in the early 1970s when the books weren't opened until '76.

Russo was made in early 1976 in the first ceremony the Colombos held after the books were opened. Promoted to captain I think in '77

https://lcnbios.blogspot.com/2018/12/colombo-family-ceremonies-1970s.html

Early February 1976

Books open. Each Family initially allowed ten new members. Those inducted in Colombo's first wave were:

1. Salvatore Albanese (40y) [Murdered 1977] [Sponsored by A. Abbatemarco]
2. Carmine 'Turi' Franzese (44y) [Died 1990] [Sponsored by J. Brancato]
3. Salvatore 'Sally Buzzo' Fusco (44y) [Died 2000] [Sponsored by J. Yacovelli]
4. Philip 'Fat Foongi' Gambino (51y) [Died 1983] [Sponsored by J. Yacovelli]
5. Joseph 'Joe Black' Gorgone (50y) [Died 2010] [Sponsored by J. Yacovelli]
6. Gennaro 'Gerry Lang' Langella (37y) [Died 2013] [Sponsored by A. Persico]
7. Andrew 'Andy Mush' Russo (41y) [Sponsored by A. Persico]
8. Anthony 'Scappi' Scarpati (42y) [Died 2002] [Sponsored by A. Persico]
9. Dominic 'Donnie' Somma (39y) [Murdered 1980] [Sponsored by C. Panarella]
10. Thomas 'Shorty' Spero (44y) [Murdered 1980] [Sponsored by A. Persico]


October 31, 1978
- Vincent 'Jimmy' Angellino (42y) [Murdered 1988]
- Gerard 'Jerry Brown' Clemenza (27y)
- Vito Guzzo (45y) [Murdered 1987]
- Michael Franzese (27y) [Sponsored by J. Vitacco]
- Salvatore 'Big Sal' Miciotta (31y) [Flipped 1993]
- John Minerva (53y) [Murdered 1992]
- Joseph Peraino Jr. (28y) [Murdered 1982]

I'm not positive but I remember reading scarpas files. He says the commission wouldn't allow the colombos to make 10 new guys in 1980 because they made to many young guys before. So they allowed them to make 2. Joe scopo was 1 and I forgot the other maybe vic orena. . Tom dibella is close to the persico faction. He steps down as boss in November 1980. Carmine goes to jail like 1 2 yrs later and asks dibella to step back up just for help. I agree hes no made in 1975 but most likely 78 as carmine's not in the picture and sonny franzese is in prison to till 1980 when hes granted parole

I thought 78 also. That LCNBios site is right on the money. I just wonder why Franzese said 40th. Not 42nd, not 45th but 40th. He's said the wrong date for 25 years so I wouldn't be surprised he's wrong here. I just thought it was interesting that this is the first time in his own words he doesn't say 75.

I'm not sure but I haven't personally read where Persico presided over a making ceremony. Does anyone else know of a making ceremony where Persico is there doing the ceremony.

1978 does seem reasonable; Can’t dispute that.

@ColonelReb

I would like to know that question also; Was Persico able to preside over a induction ceremony in his time on the streets as boss from 1979-1981...


I keep reiterating this point; but no-one that I talk to; including this forums have a idea what Persico was doing as boss on the streets in 1979-1981.

It’s like a blank there..... No surveillance?? Pictures?? Wiretaps?? on Persico while he was out on parole.

- Persico is promoted to underboss after he gets out (the position had been vacant since Anthony Abbatemarco was shelved) but continues to be the one who is de facto in charge of the family

- In 1980, Persico gets the Genovese family to kill Jerry Pappa in retaliation for the unsanctioned murders of Colombo captain Shorty Spero and his brother Ralph

- Charles Panarella is demoted to soldier and his crew is split up

- Joseph Tomasello is promoted to captain

- Persico approves the 1980 murder of Colombo soldier Dominic Somma

- Gennaro Langella is promoted to acting consigliere after Alphonse Persico goes on the lam

- Persico becomes close with John DeRoss and frequently uses him as a liaison with other families

- Persico becomes the official boss by November 1980, with DiBella stepping down with the approval of the Commission

- Persico becomes close with captain Dominic Montemarano

- Persico gets relaxed and starts meeting personally with members of his own family and the other families

- Persico tries to get permission from the Commission to induct new members and instructs his captains to construct an accurate view of the makeup of the family

- The Commission only gives the okay to induct Joseph Scopo, noting that too many young and inexperienced guys have been inducted into the Colombo family

- At least Joseph Iannacci, Pasquale Amato and another unknown individual were also inducted while Persico was still on the street

- Persico promoted Langella to underboss, with Benny Aloi taking over Langella's crew

- Persico ostensibly has legitimate employment at MGA Trucking in Staten Island to satisfy his supervised release

- Persico goes to MGA Trucking at least once a day and uses a small house in a junk yard there to meet with Colombo members

- All Colombo captains, including John Matera from Florida, meet with Persico at MGA

- Anthony Peraino and James Clemenza are briefly put direct with Persico

- Little Allie Boy Persico gets promoted to captain by May 1981

- Persico fears a return to jail and wants to consolodate control over the family

- Persico decides that Langella will run the family if he is incarcerated with advice from DiBella and help from Montemarano

- Persico attends a meeting in Brooklyn with Langella, DiBella, other Colombo members and high-ranking figures in the DeCavalcante family over a dispute between the DeCavalcantes and John Matera

- Matera is hit on Persico's orders because of a drug deal

- Persico is sentenced to 5 years in prison November 1981

Chin somes that up pretty good. Also think john irish was followed to a meeting with carmine that caused a violation maybe also a reason he got whacked but it was drugs to. I read somewhere vic orena was made with Joe scopo in 1980. Or atleast under carmine's release. 80. Think there cousins or some relationship. Vic orena was put with little allie

Franzese also said that all men inducted with him was all killed when Miciotta is still alive.

@Chin_Gigante

Thanks for the information; First time I’ve heard stuff about Carmine Persico’s reign on the streets from 1979-1981.

Look’s like he was busy with street affairs.

That's basically all the info I've ever seen about his reign on the streets in that short time..

@Chin_Gigante

That info is directly from the Scarpa Files when Greg was re-activated as a TE informant in 1980 correct?

I wish Mike Franzese would go over this type of info in his videos instead of Bullshit like "Mob Movie Monday" or "Top Jewish Gangsters" bullshit.

You are correct, all the Scarpa stuff

I’ve always heard/read he was really made in 1978. Either way I knew the 1975 claim was bullshit. First of all the books didn’t open until early 1976. I think each Family were first allowed about 10 new members. Then later that year a second batch of guys were made

@ColonelReb

I agree; Micheal Franzese should have better material then Mob Movie Monday; and all the other crap.... He could give us a lot about what Persico was doing on the streets in that 1979-1981 time period....

In my opinion; Franzese doesn’t like to talk about his contemporaries that much....

I wonder if persico going to the commission for jerry Pappas life turned chin against him. Chin wasnt boss yet and I think him and pappa were in the his crew. Cause all pappa guys went to chin after. Pete savino being 1l. I read he was pissed people took over pappa rackets and loans. Chin said were robbing the dead. I read it somewhere

That just added to all the old beefs between them. The Gallo brothers and the Chin/Greenwich Village crew had a relationship that stretched way back to the 50s. The Genovese and Gambino family were into influencing the other crews in different families to try to get a leg up on the Commission. For instance the Chins crew backed the Gallo crew of the Colombo Family and the Sonny Red faction of the Bonanno family. The Gambino's backed the Joe massimo faction and the Joe Colombo faction. Honestly I would love to hear more about the Shorty Spero and Ralph Spero murder. Was Shorty actually a Capo when he was whacked? Gerry Pappa had to be off his rocker or thought he pulled off the perfect sneak job. I would also like to know how Pappa transitioned from the Rampers(Colombo farm team like Gravano) to the Genovese. We know what transpired with Sammy. Beef with Ralph Spero, couldn't solve it, didn't want Sammy whacked so they transferred him to Toddo Aurello. I'm betting Pappa had a similar beef with Ralph, he got transferred to the Genovese Brooklyn crew once headed by Tieri. I'm drawing a blank on who took over the Genovese Brooklyn crew after Tieri. Was it Rizzo or Russo? It was in Joey Cantalupos book. Persico laid out the facts that they knew Pappa killed The Spero bros and want e to whack out Pappa, the Genovese family OK'd the hit and the Colombo's sent in a stone cold killer Little Dom Cataldo to carry out the contract in Dutchie Tuzzio's place Villa 66.

DeRoss, Langella, and Montemarano were Persico conduits during those years, there are two others but those are the ones that were known to give messages and orders on Persicos behalf.

1978 is when Michael Franzese was made.

On Gerry Pappa, he was an associate with the Colombo family, but like Gravano, he had problems with Spero's brother. Pappa actually had a relative with the Genovese and was able to transfer to that family. Pappa killed Ralph Spero cause Spero was ripping them off in drug deals. Tommy went looking for his brothers killers and then disappeared. Before Pappa became a loose cannon, he was first in Thomas Lombardi Gaetano Marino crew in the Genovese family, later he was with Matty Browns crew when he was hit.

In his book, Gravano mentionned that at the time of the Rampers, Gerry Pappa was connected to a guy nicknamed "Dutch" who was a made guy with the Genovese (I'm guessing Anthony Tuzzio ?). So I don't think, Pappa was ever considered an associate of the Colombos despite the fact that the Rampers were primarly connected to the Colombos.

Same thing with Louis Milito, a member of the Rampers who, early on, was connected to John Rizzo from the Gambinos.

Who headed the other Genovese Brooklyn crew? Last name Russo I think.

I mean the more you think about it. Persico had the clout to have the genovese kill a member of there own family. It's that simple n plain. He had more clout in the world then chin did at that time.

And colombo guys got to kill a made genovese guy? Is this a fact? This must have been a commission vote I would think. Chin and benny's squint wouldn't give up there own you think like big paul gave up the ct capo piccolo and the Springfield crew killed him or people from ct who reported to rhem

The Pappa thing is very different from the Piccolo situation. After all, Pappa had killed a Colombo skipper (and his brother) without permission

Did some more checking and Pete Savino confirmed the Pappa story. Says that shortly after Pappa's murder, Vincent Gigante told him that Pappa had been killed for the hit on Spero

You may be thinking of John Rizzo and Andy Russo, both were involved in the sitdown, especially when Pappa asked for police protection. The Genovese Brooklyn crews were Thomas Lombardi/Gaetano Marino which Frank Illiano and Albert Gallo took over later, this was the crew that split from Frank Tieri crew. Thomas Lombardi was actually running two crew at one time, until Ottaviano Lombardi took over one of the crews and Marino took over the other crew. Matteo "Matty Brown" Fortunato, this is the old Anthony Carfano crew. Thomas Contaldo took over for Fresca which use to be part of the Greco crew. Michael Generoso was skipper of another crew. Those are the five Genovese crews that had huge pull in Brooklyn, there were others but those are the major ones in the borough.

I finally found the book out of the thousands I have. Cantalupo say it was guy named Johnny Russo close to Tieri.

What about Joey Ida? What crew was he part of in Brooklyn. Joey was Jimmy Ida's brother. joey had a social club at 1305 67th street. Right down the block from Dutchie Tuzzio's Villa 66. A couple blocks North from where Sal Scarpa got whacked.